Heartbroken for Lahaina

[Mingo]

Hawaii, an extremely poor state in terms of population living below poverty level income, has an exceedingly poor record of infrastructure maintenance.

And an exceedingly high rate of government corruption and incompetence. The stories my Maui friends are telling of the shit going on over there...or NOT going on over there....is incredible. One guy had his four-pickup caravan loaded with supplies for their neighborhood blocked by police. He was told only the Red Cross or FEMA was allowed to bring supplies in. But many others are getting stuff in by boat, because they can't blockade the entire ocean. So stuff IS getting in, but not enough. It's a total shit show.

 

[Mingo]

And on top of everything else survivors are dealing with, the effing carpetbaggers are moving in.

 

[krusty]

And an exceedingly high rate of government corruption and incompetence. The stories my Maui friends are telling of the shit going on over there...or NOT going on over there....is incredible. One guy had his four-pickup caravan loaded with supplies for their neighborhood blocked by police. He was told only the Red Cross or FEMA was allowed to bring supplies in. But many others are getting stuff in by boat, because they can't blockade the entire ocean. So stuff IS getting in, but not enough. It's a total shit show.

Heartbreaking situation, and even more disturbing is the entirely predictable arc of how the response to this major disaster (like most disasters) will proceed.

Numerous task forces will be charged with determining what happened, and what's required to prevent or mitigate similar future disasters. Politicians and other leaders will pledge total dedication to implementing those recommended measures.

As the actual astronomical costs associated with mitigation/remediation become apparent, funding and momentum slowly dissipate (the 'kick the can down the road phase'), new politicians and leaders take the helm (and basically look at the disaster from the perspective of 'ancient history'), the only ones truly remembering are the survivors (who will eventually find themselves being told to 'move on' and 'get over it').......

'Tis the way of how human society processes and eventually forgets catastrophe....repeating the same sad mistakes over and over.

 

[Mossback]

There's just no money in disaster prevention, compared to the money in disaster recovery.
Prevention is expensive, hard to fund, and with no obvious 'need' in front of you, no headlines are generated by prevention.

...and so it goes...

 

[RCF]

This is true. The strange thing is several witnesses said power was cut before the winds even started. And well before the main fire flared up. Very odd.

News keeps changing:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/investing/hawaiian-electric-maui-fires-lawsuit/index.html

 

[Divad]

I’m trying to put myself in their shoes. What if everything I owned is gone aside from what’s in my bank and on my back, then some terd comes and offers me a chunk of coin for my burned property that insurance won’t cover. It might be the only way to continue life in a reasonable timeframe?

I also find these snipers disgustingly petty and absolutely hate the burn looters. Prayers to Maui.

If only some of the $24B our govt wants to give to ****** in the next wave could be given to our own people suffering. Okay okay I won’t go there.

 

[_WW_]

I’m trying to put myself in their shoes. What if everything I owned is gone aside from what’s in my bank and on my back, then some terd comes and offers me a chunk of coin for my burned property that insurance won’t cover. It might be the only way to continue life in a reasonable timeframe?

I also find these snipers disgustingly petty and absolutely hate the burn looters. Prayers to Maui.

If only some of the $24B our govt wants to give to ****** in the next wave could be given to our own people suffering. Okay okay I won’t go there.

Snipers?

 

[clarkman]

There's just no money in disaster prevention, compared to the money in disaster recovery.
Prevention is expensive, hard to fund, and with no obvious 'need' in front of you, no headlines are generated by prevention.

...and so it goes...

Sadly, you're spot on.

Too many looking to take advantage....after the fact.

 

[Mingo]

I’m trying to put myself in their shoes. What if everything I owned is gone aside from what’s in my bank and on my back, then some terd comes and offers me a chunk of coin for my burned property that insurance won’t cover. It might be the only way to continue life in a reasonable timeframe?

I also find these snipers disgustingly petty and absolutely hate the burn looters. Prayers to Maui.

If only some of the $24B our govt wants to give to ****** in the next wave could be given to our own people suffering. Okay okay I won’t go there.

The big problem is the post-fire toxicity of the soil and lots will tank land values. So the offers aren't going to be the lucrative ones you'd get for a standing house in a desirable market like Lahaina, where a 3 bed 1500 sq foot house was going for $1.5-$1.8 million before the fire. But some desperate people won't have many options. It's a shitty situation. A normal buyer isn't going to want an ash lot with no buildings in a burned out town with no restaurants or services.

 

[Yard Sale]

I know the loss of life has us in the Gorge talking about warning systems and exit points a lot right now. I'm not sure there is much you can do to stop a fire in 80 mph winds and low humidity. But you can make sure people have a plan to get notified and get out. Well, locals at least. We had some talks after the eagle creek fire and planning for the big earthquake, but the horror in Maui has pushed that back to the forefront. I can only imagine sitting in the Columbia watching my town burn.

 

[JudyM]

Not good news, there is a Tropical Storm Fernanda heading west from the Pacific Mexican coast. I have Hawaiian fishing buddies and they are devastated.

 

[Mingo]

The lack of water to fight the fire has now been proven true. There are so many crazy components to this horrible story ...it's hard to keep up as one rumor after another proves to be true.

 

[Flymph]

The lack of water to fight the fire has now been proven true. There are so many crazy components to this horrible story ...it's hard to keep up as one rumor after another proves to be true.
View attachment 77897

Was the water diverted in some way?

 

[Millsfly]

if anyone is interested, we're running #fliesformaui on IG and hope to raise $50k for disaster relief. Same style of program we've done for a couple years. Post something on your IG you want to auction off, auction goes for 7 days, high bidder wins. Happy to help get you going if you want to do it. Raised $5k in the first 3 days and should ramp here this week

 

[Buzzy]

The lack of water to fight the fire has now been proven true. There are so many crazy components to this horrible story ...it's hard to keep up as one rumor after another proves to be true.
View attachment 77897

I'm trying to understand how this happened; how were the hydrants supplied with water? Gravity or pumps? I read one article that the electric utility (who is accused of starting the fire?) didn't open the transmission line circuits (shut of the power) in a timely manner. If these hydrants required pumps? What a mess. So very sad.

 

[krusty]

I know the loss of life has us in the Gorge talking about warning systems and exit points a lot right now. I'm not sure there is much you can do to stop a fire in 80 mph winds and low humidity. But you can make sure people have a plan to get notified and get out. Well, locals at least. We had some talks after the eagle creek fire and planning for the big earthquake, but the horror in Maui has pushed that back to the forefront. I can only imagine sitting in the Columbia watching my town burn.

'Back to the forefront' for a very short while. None of the planning for disaster response means a damn thing without budget, full-time staff to execute the plan, multi-agency coordination and regular drills (and post drill critique for plan revision). Most of these things sit in three ring binders on a shelf, long forgotten after a few staff replacements, with critical gear inventory locations outdated and scattered to the wind.

As the old saying goes...."The best way to starve a horse is to put two or more people in charge of feeding it".

As for hydrants....fully funded and professionally managed fire departments spend a great deal of time testing hydrants and mains. The records, or lack thereof, will reveal whether this was a case of acute event related water system malfunction or chronic neglect.

I think it will be interesting to see whether Hawaii establishes significant aerial wildfire control capabilities in response to this disaster. The mainland struggles with the same issue but is generally able shift aerial resources and cobble together a response. Hawaii is on its own in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Brute]

The most depressing news I've heard so far was the school closures due to the impending storm...a lot of kids were home when the fire ripped through the residences.

I'm really down about this...

 

[Flymph]

The comments below are from BRANDY NALANI MCDOUGALL: Mahalo for having me. NPR guest speaking on behalf of the wildfire devastation.

MCDOUGALL: If this vision in what I wrote was allowed to happen, where water was allowed to flow, where it was allowed to be created and continued to feed and nurture everyone it should, this wouldn't have happened. So much about Hawaiian land protection and water protection is about restoration of aina, restoration of the land. And that includes water restoration, letting water remember where it should go, letting water flow where it needs to go because it was already a system that protected us, as well. And a lot of Hawaiian land and water protection has been a fight for so many generations now. We have to go to the courts. We have to put our bodies on the line to protect everything. And we're seeing the devastating consequences of that lack of protection.

If what she is saying is indeed factual than the greatest tragedy of all is that it could have been prevented!

 

[Brute]

The comments below are from BRANDY NALANI MCDOUGALL: Mahalo for having me. NPR guest speaking on behalf of the wildfire devastation.

MCDOUGALL: If this vision in what I wrote was allowed to happen, where water was allowed to flow, where it was allowed to be created and continued to feed and nurture everyone it should, this wouldn't have happened. So much about Hawaiian land protection and water protection is about restoration of aina, restoration of the land. And that includes water restoration, letting water remember where it should go, letting water flow where it needs to go because it was already a system that protected us, as well. And a lot of Hawaiian land and water protection has been a fight for so many generations now. We have to go to the courts. We have to put our bodies on the line to protect everything. And we're seeing the devastating consequences of that lack of protection.

If what she is saying is indeed factual than the greatest tragedy of all is that it could have been prevented!

Unfortunately it would not have prevented what happened...but it could have lessened the tragedy that ensued...

 

[Mingo]

Another huge factor was the fire earlier on Tuesday. Residents were told that it was "100% contained" so everyone figured the danger was over.

There are many very strange things emerging about the timeline of the tragedy. Like zero siren or text warnings and no cell service. They test the siren warning systems on all the islands EVERY month on the first at 11:45 AM. It's for tsunamis, or fires or any other disaster. It is music to our ears and it's our monthly musical comfort food....knowing that we have a warning siren (it sounds just like an air raid siren). Yet the ONE day it was needed, only a week after it was tested on the 1st, it WAS NOT DEPLOYED? are you FUCKING KIDDING ME? And the system has power backup too. Yet.....crickets.

One thing everyone knows about politics here is that nobody will be held accountable. Remember 6 years ago, when they sent us the false alarm text that North Korea had fired a missile at Hawaii and we had 30 minutes before we were annihilated? I remember it well. I poured myself a shot, looked up at the sky and said "pour me a double honey, it looks like I'll be seeing you in 30 minutes." I grabbed a fly rod and my bottle of Oban and was loading my car to go fish my favorite little reef in town when the "no worry, false alarm" text arrived on my phone. I figured I'd rather die fishing than sitting on my couch.

Some people died from heart attacks because of that false alarm. And kids were injured when their terrified parents shoved them down sewer manholes in Honolulu in a desperate attempt to save them.

Nobody was punished for that colossal government failure. Nothing happened to the Governor....he was re-elected! A "staffer" was blamed, and was quietly retired with full benefits. So nobody here expects to see anyone held accountable for this tragedy, which is much much worse.