Crazy Idea or Good Idea?

[Jake Watrous]

Here's the idea:

Put a heavy section of t-14-18…etc above a lighter weight section, then put the fly on. In the current the heavy line would haul the lighter line and fly down, and you could control depth with rod angle/position.

The rivers near me are too low to test it, so whatcha think…good idea? Bad idea? Already been done?

I’ve been thinking about how using one could be awesome for a river like the Sol Duc where you’re not fishing at a consistent depth and might otherwise feel pressured to change tips a lot.

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

I'm intrigued. You're saying something like fly -> type 3 -> t17 -> line ?

 

[Jake Watrous]

I'm intrigued. You're saying something like fly -> type 3 -> t17 -> line ?

Exactly.

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

Exactly.

If you cut the type 3 down enough so your tip length wasn't super long I'd imagine it would at least be castable (is that a word?). 8' of t17 with 4' of type 3....I might have to give this a whirl.

 

[Shad]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Seems like if you balanced the lengths/weights out, it should cast at least as well as a typical sink tip. I'll be interested to know how it works out!

 

[Jake Watrous]

If you cut the type 3 down enough so your tip length wasn't super long I'd imagine it would at least be castable (is that a word?). 8' of t17 with 4' of type 3....I might have to give this a whirl.

That’s almost exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Brute]

How do you join the lines?…loop to loop, nail knot?

 

[Paige]

Why not just get a 3D or 4D line, I prefer the line to be level.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Why not just get a 3D or 4D line, I prefer the line to be level.

Because a multi-density line would have the densities in order. I specifically want a heavy section in the middle of non-heavy sections. Maybe even float > t-18 > type 3

 

[Jake Watrous]

How do you join the lines?…loop to loop, nail knot?

Probably loop-loop. It's what I'm already using for running line > head > tip > leader

If I find it really works well I suppose I could splice with a needle, but that's a pain and I've never found it to be necessary.

 

[Pink Nighty]

I have some questions.....

What advantage does this give over running just the heavy stuff?

Once everything is under tension, are you anticipating the lighter section riding shallower than the heavy section?

I'm intrigued, but in my mind once its swinging the lighter line will line up with the heavier line under tension, and swing deep.

 

[Paige]

Because a multi-density line would have the densities in order. I specifically want a heavy section in the middle of non-heavy sections. Maybe even float > t-18 > type 3

I would think that middle section would hang up first and would be problematic to get out

 

[Jake Watrous]

I have some questions.....

What advantage does this give over running just the heavy stuff?

Once everything is under tension, are you anticipating the lighter section riding shallower than the heavy section?

I'm intrigued, but in my mind once its swinging the lighter line will line up with the heavier line under tension, and swing deep.

That’s part of the idea. The current pushes the lighter line down because it is more vertical/perpendicular to the flow. Lifting some or all of that heavier section out and/or coming tight to the line would, in theory, lead to the fly and lighter section climbing in the water column. You could control the depth the entirety of the swing.

The main advantage is, when fishing rivers like the Sol Duc, where depth is not uniform--even in a single swing, to control depth with rod angle instead of changing tips and get the fly to ride where you want it.

 

[Jake Watrous]

I would think that middle section would hang up first and would be problematic to get out

Depends on how heavy, how long you let it sink, etc. but if just straight heavy doesn't hang up I don't see why having a short section of heavy and the rest light would do so at any increased rate—especially when consciously monitoring it/controlling depth.

 

[G_Smolt]

Years ago I messed around with AirFlo's CCT and made a pile of "combi" tips pretty much identical to what you are envisioning. One of my faves was 5' of cct330 welded to 5' of cct200, loops on both ends, with the 330 on the flystring end and the 200 on the fly end. The 330 pulled more flystring under and slowed the swing down, and the tapered mass made skagit loops a lot prettier in the air.

If you get AirFlo cct, you can just weld the two together with a 4"-6" overlapping weld - no need to loop. I haven't been able to make long-term durable welds with "new" Rio T, even after trying a bunch of different types/temps, so I'd probably just loop that.

Experimenting was definitely fun, but mostly what I learned is 10' of cc200 is what I fish successfully 95% of the time I spend steelheading.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Years ago I messed around with AirFlo's CCT and made a pile of "combi" tips pretty much identical to what you are envisioning. One of my faves was 5' of cct330 welded to 5' of cct200, loops on both ends, with the 330 on the flystring end and the 200 on the fly end. The 330 pulled more flystring under and slowed the swing down, and the tapered mass made skagit loops a lot prettier in the air.

If you get AirFlo cct, you can just weld the two together with a 4"-6" overlapping weld - no need to loop. I haven't been able to make long-term durable welds with "new" Rio T, even after trying a bunch of different types/temps, so I'd probably just loop that.

Experimenting was definitely fun, but mostly what I learned is 10' of cc200 is what I fish successfully 95% of the time I spend steelheading.

Thank you for the input. It's nice to hear I'm not alone in trying this. I agree that it's situational, but experimenting is fun for me.

I’ve been burned so many times trying to weld different lines that I’d given up. Maybe I'll try it with those lines.

 

[Salmo_g]

I don't know if it's a crazy idea or a good idea. I'm pretty sure it's too complicated of an idea for me to bother with however. If a winter steelhead lie won't fish for me with a 15' type VI RIO tip or 10' of T-11, then it's probably not going to fish for me at all. The more I've learned about steelhead fly fishing over the past 50 years is that it really isn't very complicated.

 

[Jake Watrous]

I don't know if it's a crazy idea or a good idea. I'm pretty sure it's too complicated of an idea for me to bother with however. If a winter steelhead lie won't fish for me with a 15' type VI RIO tip or 10' of T-11, then it's probably not going to fish for me at all. The more I've learned about steelhead fly fishing over the past 50 years is that it really isn't very complicated.

I get and respect that point of view. For me, though, it’s about experimenting and trying something new—to explore and see if there’s a better or different way. To be constantly engaged in every aspect of the sport--from constantly trying and tying new flies, to giving myself challenges, trying different ways of tying in adjustable droppers, making my own lines, building my own kayaks and canoes.

If it turns out worse, or more complicated, so be it--lesson learned and on to the next experiment or iteration. A lot of the time, though, it works out for the better or I learn something that improves my fishing just a little more. A recent example: Indicator nymphing morphed into tying my own hybrid line for tight-line nymphing, which became mono-rig tight-line, which became nymphing with 25' of 5x. At each stage the number of fish went up, and initially things were complicated...until they weren't and it all fell together. Lots of folks swear by indicators from 0-30', and cool for them. For me, though, I saw a 3-400% increase in hookups, my rig couldn't be simpler, and I can still easily fish that same range. If I can figure this thing out, and it works, then maybe I won't have to change tips nearly as often and my life will be less complicated. Who knows, I may increase my hookups too.

The way I see it, this game we play is not about catching fish at any cost. If it was, we’d all be fishing bait.

 

[clarkman]

Sooooo, kinda like the 3D tips already out there? Or you just wanna make your own?

Been there, done that (albeit for shorter SH tips). Totally works, and works great as long as you don't get over ambitious with length and weight for what you're fishing. That said, much of what you're likely after can be accomplished with some decent mending.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Sooooo, kinda like the 3D tips already out there? Or you just wanna make your own?

I haven’t found one with the densities “out of order”, but maybe that’s just poor sleuthing skills.

That said, much of what you're likely after can be accomplished with some decent mending.

Some, sure, but not all.

Cool to hear I’m not the only one trying this stuff.