NFR A government proposal to kill a half-million owls

[Mossback]

We already are not producing enough energy and we are planning to eliminate sources of energy.
No sources of energy, clean or otherwise should be eliminated until it's replacement is 100%

U.S. energy facts explained - consumption and production - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

U.S. energy supply by types of energy sources and energy consumption by transportation, industrial, commercial, residential, and electric power sectors.

www.eia.gov

From the link :
"U.S. total annual energy production has exceeded total annual energy consumption since 2019. In 2022, production was 102.92 quads and consumption was 100.41 quads."


We can never be energy independent while we rely on a fuel source that is both controlled by the global market and highly susceptible to international conflict and manipulation by autocratic regimes, and the United States is already the world’s largest producer of oil and gas. The future will not be running on oil and gas, best plan for alternatives sooner than later.
No amount of rhetoric is going to change that...

 

[Flymph]

Always intrigued by those who say we are not producing enough oil when the US is the 4th largest exporter. Does this make "cents'?

 

[Northern]

So, let me see if I follow this thread: we went from 500,00 owls to be culled to an outright ban on NG appliances in HB 1589, to HB 1589 implies an outright ban on NG appliances, to OK, HB 1589 foreshadows a future bill to ban NG appliances, then back to 500,000 owls, to meatloaf cupcakes - have I got this right?

Well, might as well throw init some bacon, cuz as everyone knows, everthing is better with bacon, even if cooked on an NG stove.

Cheers

What an excellent summary!
You must be middle management

 

[RCF]

 

[Mossback]

Shouldn't cows be on the endangered species list? They keep killing them off. Anyone have a beef with that?

As a steakholder in all of this....

 

[charles sullivan]

View attachment 111670

I feel bad about my roll in the derailment. I just really have a hard time when information is spread that is not only not true but where the truth is easily found. I know a bit about the enrgy code dealing with new construction here in WA state both from a private property owner perspective and for work. Garbage like saying that the sale of gas powered appliances is being banned does nothing but confuse the actual situation.

It's fantastic that we get to have different opinions. I think generally we disagree here without being disagreeable. When people pass falsehoods off as facts it leads to thread derailment.

I know nothing about barred owls or spotted owls. Sometimes, I learn things when reading threads like these about subjects that I don't know about. I just hope that any facts that people use here or anywhere are true and not falsehoods. I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to hold my tongue (or fingers) when I see things stated as fact that I know are false. I would hope that I would be called out if I stated incorrect facts. That way, I don't repeat the false information.

 

[RCF]

@charles sullivan I agree with you. I have learned a lot more here than I ever envisioned. Sometimes when a thread takes a turn I learn even more. There are so many subject matter experts here - quite unbelievable too. In this day and age, misinformation seems at the forefront. Nice to get factual information - I fully support that. Keep up the good work, please...

With regard to my derailed GIF, just some of my weird type of humor. Not always taken that way, but humor hits us all differently. Carry on...

 

[Brian Miller]

What are you looking at? On March 28, 2024, the bill was signed into law. My link is to the as-enacted law. I don't see your bolded language in the law.

Mar 28Governor signed.
Chapter 351, 2024 Laws. (View Session Law)
Effective date 3/28/2024.

Thank You for the update. I stand corrected. I could not find a more recent report about HB-1589 than the Feb 1 2024 KREM article, or an article about its companion Senate bill.

View attachment 111670

I also apologize for my part of the derailment.
Back to Owls

 

[Mossback]

 

[FinLuver]

I am surprised that the proposed killing of 500,000 owls involves proposed climate changes regarding propane.... Guess so... Who woulda thunk?

Orcas, salmon, and dams are related too…
Oh, and can’t forget the kids.

 

[Zak]

Thank You for the update. I stand corrected. I could not find a more recent report about HB-1589 than the Feb 1 2024 KREM article, or an article about its companion Senate bill.

I also apologize for my part of the derailment.
Back to Owls

Hot off the presses:

A future without natural gas? New law involving PSE aspires to set the course

Lawmakers have wrestled with how to decarbonize the state's largest utility and gas provider without hurting ratepayers.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[Canuck from Kansas]

View attachment 111679

That is spooky - I look at it for more than a few seconds and I get dizzy

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Orcas, salmon, and dams are related too…
Oh, and can’t forget the kids.

It's always about the kids. A levy today is tomorrow's college loan bailout. An in demand underserved trade like hunting and tracking owls or natural gas technician is what they need. Oh, and get off that Chinese tick tock. The CCP is setting a thirst trap and you are all lapping it up like the capitalist dogs you are.

 

[jasmillo]

It's always about the kids. A levy today is tomorrow's college loan bailout. An in demand underserved trade like hunting and tracking owls or natural gas technician is what they need. Oh, and get off that Chinese tick tock. The CCP is setting a thirst trap and you are all lapping it up like the capitalist dogs you are.

College loan bailouts drive me bonkers. As someone who paid for 90% of my college and grad school tuition via loans and paid them back. The thought of now having to pay off others tuition as well is beyond frustrating. That said, I understand it. My wife and I made some difficult life decisions because of the burden of student loans. If I still had loans and qualified it be tough not to take the government up on the offer.

I wish they’d give those of is who were responsible and made sacrifices to pay off our loans some love too. Maybe the ability to throw a few extra sheckles into a 401k. Something like that. That is one of the less consequential sacrifices we made paying off our loans.

Edit: sorry, did not mean to post this after writing as to not derail further . Well, it’s out there. About these owls…well, I like having barred owls around. Keeps the rodent population in check and they have cool calls. I say we keep’em and let nature takes its course. A selfish, personal, unscientific decision but this is the internet…

 

[Dustin Chromers]

College loan bailouts drive me bonkers. As someone who paid for 90% of my college and grad school tuition via loans and paid them back. The thought of now having to pay off others tuition as well is beyond frustrating. That said, I understand it. My wife and I made some difficult life decisions because of the burden of student loans. If I still had loans and qualified it be tough not to take the government up on the offer.

I wish they’d give those off is who were responsible and made sacrifices to pay off our loans some love too. Maybe the ability to throw a few extra shackles into a 401k. Something like that. That is one of the less
Consequential sacrifices we made paying off our loans.

I vote no on everything. Screw the kids, the college kids, and the owls. They need to pull them selves up by their primary feathers and make it happen. If we continue down the path of survival of the least fit the way we are we will end up with dumb kids majoring in shitty fields of study who have zero accountability and slow ass inefficient owls who can't adapt. I can't help but miss the metaphor for the government killing the strong in order to preserve the weak. What's next a shitty electrical grid with rolling brown outs? If only there were a clean alternative available that you could store on your own. It's the way she goes. The Idiocracy is real and it is now.

 

[charles sullivan]

College loan bailouts drive me bonkers. As someone who paid for 90% of my college and grad school tuition via loans and paid them back. The thought of now having to pay off others tuition as well is beyond frustrating. That said, I understand it. My wife and I made some difficult life decisions because of the burden of student loans. If I still had loans and qualified it be tough not to take the government up on the offer.

I wish they’d give those off is who were responsible and made sacrifices to pay off our loans some love too. Maybe the ability to throw a few extra shackles into a 401k. Something like that. That is one of the less
Consequential sacrifices we made paying off our loans.

I completely understand this point.

 

[Salmo_g]

College loan bailouts drive me bonkers. As someone who paid for 90% of my college and grad school tuition via loans and paid them back. The thought of now having to pay off others tuition as well is beyond frustrating.

Continuing down the track of derailment for another moment . . . I agree about bonkers and frustrating. It's bonkers and frustrating because "bail out" sends the wrong message by rewarding poor decision making, irresponsibility, and possibly bad luck. How can it be more wrong-headed when the college educated beneficiaries of the bail out, on average, earn more than the non-college educated workers who help pay for the bailout?

A more thoughtful - and fair - response, IMO, would be something akin to the old National Defense Student Loan (NDSL) program of the 1960s and early 1970s. Not that it actually had anything to do with national defense that I knew of, but it was a government backed loan program with a low interest rate of 3%. If one of the problems these days is graduates after 10 years of loan repayments find themselves owing more than they originally borrowed, then a 3% interest rate should mitigate the risk of owing more than one can hope to repay. I myself took out an NDSL loan, a whole whopping $3,000 that I didn't have to begin repaying until after I graduated. I was sweating bullets because I'd never been in debt before, but I digress. My point is that a government backed or government subsidized loan doesn't let students off the hook. It's not a bail out. They have to repay the loan, which is as it should be. But the loan terms are not the product of predatory lending, which apparently some college students fell for. (I hope they took a class in finance so as not to repeat the mistake.) I mention this as a product outcome where existing loans that are adversely affecting some graduates could be rolled over to a government backed loan that wouldn't be so bonkers or frustrating or offer critics nearly so much to bitch about.

Meanwhile, those owls . . .