9mm or .45acp?

[dflett68]

....Those are my choices due to my circumstances. I normally carry when I'm in the woods, for the normal reasons. I know that neither of those weapons, nor their ammo, was designed to kill animals, let alone big ones. Question is, if I do encounter a big animal that I couldn't discourage with noise or bear spray, which of those pistols? Capacity is about the same for the pistols I have. I'm well trained on the range but I'm neither a hunter nor a gun geek, so I'm not very knowledgeable about calibers, velocities, ballistics, bullet types, etc. relative to the idea of how much and what kind of damage they do to various living things.

After I resolve which weapon, I need to also know which type of projectile is better for the task - FMJ or Hollow Point? I have an impression (not sure where I got it) that penetration is king with a big animal covered in thick fur, and that the hollow point could undermine that.

I'm talking about what we've got around here, btw, not grizzly bears.

With all of this, I fully expect and truly hope to never point or shoot any gun at another living thing unless I'm hunting for it - considering how rare real attacks are and how effective non-lethal approaches can be. But I'd like to be as ready as I can for my circumstances.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Roper]

45 acp for sure…now, striker or hammer fired. The Glock G21, Gen 4 has 13+1 capacity. You can mix HP and FMJ in your mag…just sayin.

 

[TicTokCroc]

Either or for vicious attacking animals, But I would go with the 9mm with 2 hi cap mags for 2 legged predators. The scenario I envision would be fleeing from meth heads or cartel. A 9mm would be good enough for a controlled exfiltration, keeping their heads down. You have enough ammo and the velocity to reach out a bit further then the 45. I wouldn't want to get hit with a 9mm from 100 yards despite the not so great ballistics. I usually carried a Springfield xd9 when I'm out in the woods, before I lost it in that canoe accident.

 

[tkww]

You don't want hollowpoints no matter what. They would radically under-penetrate on a bear. You want flat-nosed, hardcast bullets. You can read the story in the link.

If you have a choice between a piece that can take +P and one that can't, I'd definitely go with the +P option. Particularly with .45 ACP, which isn't that speedy to begin with. In either case you're probably going to have to rely on quantity of shots a bit more than you might with a more powerful option.

 

[nwbobber]

You will never have a problem with a black bear unless you shoot it first, so don't shoot one unless it's on top of you. I know a guy that killed one that he had shot (with a rifle, it charged) with a .22 pistol he carried for the occasional grouse. Shoved it right up under his jaw and emptied it. A 9mm is plenty for a cougar or the more likely two legged predator. Hollow points might be a bad choice on something like a bear, but generally its a hydraulic action that opens them up, try shooting them into a pile of newspapers to see what happens. I think they would have a bit of an advantage on a cougar, a wolf, or a methhead.

 

[dflett68]

45 acp for sure…now, striker or hammer fired. The Glock G21, Gen 4 has 13+1 capacity. You can mix HP and FMJ in your mag…just sayin.

Thanks Roper. I do have a couple of cool older hammer fired .45's, but they're 7+1 and 6+1, so they're really just here to remind me of my Dad. I had a chance at either the G21 or G41, both gen 4, and I took the 41. That's what I'm considering using versus one of the 9's.

 

[Merle]

After I resolve which weapon, I need to also know which type of projectile is better for the task - FMJ or Hollow Point? I have an impression (not sure where I got it) that penetration is king with a big animal covered in thick fur, and that the hollow point could undermine that.

Buffalo Bore makes +P hard cast ammo for outdoorsy personal defense. There’s a story on their website about a dude who closed down a grizzly with a 9mm.

Edit: just saw the story linked above, that’s the one I was thinking of!

 

[TicTokCroc]

Could there be a more controversial topic then 9mm vs 45

 

[troutstalker]

Could there be a more controversial topic then 9mm vs 45

.357 vs 10mm?

 

[Paige]

Could there be a more controversial topic then 9mm vs 45

Bobbers vs swinging

 

[Brute]

.45 auto mag for the win…just taking it out of the holster is fun…

 

[mcswny]

Wolves vs No wolves?

 

[TicTokCroc]

Bobbers vs swinging

Bobbers vs. Strike indicators

 

[Matt B]

Bobbers vs. Strike indicators

Swivel or no swivel

 

[Guy Gregory]

Could there be a more controversial topic then 9mm vs 45

.270 v. .30-06, or am I dating myself?

Roper has good advice, Ill add I’ve a Springfield XDE, single stack mag but a very pleasant snd reasonably accurate shooter.

 

[Buzzy]

You will never have a problem with a black bear unless you shoot it first, so don't shoot one unless it's on top of you.

Really! Never? Not to be argumentative but I beg to differ - that is if the Wenatchee World's reporting of a black bear attacking a man walking his dogs at Lake Wenatchee is accurate. (https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news...cle_b28c6bd2-23e5-5e48-8c98-1e5b488b3f98.html)

 

[Brute]

.270 v. .30-06, or am I dating myself?

Roper has good advice, Ill add I’ve a Springfield XDE, single stack mag but a very pleasant snd reasonably accurate shooter.

My dad hunted deer with a .270 Weatherby Mag, and my deer rifle was 30-06 Springfield…

 

[nwbobber]

Really! Never? Not to be argumentative but I beg to differ - that is if the Wenatchee World's reporting of a black bear attacking a man walking his dogs at Lake Wenatchee is accurate. (https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news...cle_b28c6bd2-23e5-5e48-8c98-1e5b488b3f98.html)

Yes and there have been cases of blacks hunting men too, mostly in southeast Alaska. But you are far more likely to be hit by lightning, Cougars actually do from time to time hunt people in our area, and by far the biggest threat to man is man. Just being pragmatic. I don't carry anything in the woods unless I am figuring on encountering human dirtbags. I've spent a lot of time out there, and wildlife is not something I worry about. Treat them with respect, and you'll have no problems.
9mm's got a bad rap because the FBI adopted them with ammunition that didn't perform well. They work really well with a bullet sized to allow them to develop the velocity to generate hydrostatic shock. I use 115 gr. That will be very effective on thin skinned animals like dogs, wolves, cougars, and dickheads. You can carry more ammunition, of course if you have to buy a new pistol with a 10 round mag, I'd probably carry a .40. Or a .45. If I was planning on shooting a bear, I wouldn't think any of these was adequate, more likely cause more problems.

 

[mooseknuckles]

Testing recently concluded and the home self defense round for bear encounters has been settled. Steamboat man shoots bear that broke into his downtown home - Steamboat Pilot

 

[wanderingrichard]

....Those are my choices due to my circumstances. I normally carry when I'm in the woods, for the normal reasons. I know that neither of those weapons, nor their ammo, was designed to kill animals, let alone big ones. Question is, if I do encounter a big animal that I couldn't discourage with noise or bear spray, which of those pistols? Capacity is about the same for the pistols I have. I'm well trained on the range but I'm neither a hunter nor a gun geek, so I'm not very knowledgeable about calibers, velocities, ballistics, bullet types, etc. relative to the idea of how much and what kind of damage they do to various living things.

After I resolve which weapon, I need to also know which type of projectile is better for the task - FMJ or Hollow Point? I have an impression (not sure where I got it) that penetration is king with a big animal covered in thick fur, and that the hollow point could undermine that.

I'm talking about what we've got around here, btw, not grizzly bears.

With all of this, I fully expect and truly hope to never point or shoot any gun at another living thing unless I'm hunting for it - considering how rare real attacks are and how effective non-lethal approaches can be. But I'd like to be as ready as I can for my circumstances.

Thanks for any input.

Do you happen to also have a .357 or .44 Spl with a 4 inch barrel in your battery? I'd carry that loaded with hard cast, heavy for caliber, bullets if going into bear country .

Would carry the 357 w/ full power LSWC-HPs if worried about anything big cat to human sized were the worry.
Choice of holster would be cross chest or Tanker Rig .

For your .45, look for something like this ; https://underwoodammo.com/45-acp-p-255-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose/

The reason I suggested the revolvers, is that they have a longer history of being used as both hunting and defensive arms, whereas the 45 and 9mm were designed with humans in mind.