I appreciate the detailed responseThat's why I wish they would pick a plan, keep at it for at least 3 years and measure the shit out of it.
I'd say limiting boat fishing on the Sol Duc definitely has a reduction in impacts as it's so hard to fish from the bank, people just don't do it and there isn't enough access to create the fisherman-weirs you can see on the Hoh. The drop in the number of boats passing my house last year (downstream of the hatchery) was huge. Which is why I don't understand why they opened up the hatchery to Maxfield section this year given the 'Duc is a genebank river with no hatchery fish. Like I opened, I have a hardtime making sense of it.
Basically ticking a piece of lead along the bottom with a bait or some sort attached as the boat drifts with the current. Where power is permitted, boats will do laps over the best spots. On rivers like the Cowlitz, there will be a convoy of big jet boats with a bunch of people in them doing laps. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Doing it from the bank is pretty challenging as it's all feel.What is side drifting, for the uninitiated?
Basically ticking a piece of lead along the bottom with a bait or some sort attached as the boat drifts with the current. Where power is permitted, boats will do laps over the best spots. On rivers like the Cowlitz, there will be a convoy of big jet boats with a bunch of people in them doing laps. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Doing it from the bank is pretty challenging as it's all feel.
Side-Drifting for Steelhead — Catch More Steelhead
Side-drifting is a great searching technique for steelhead… here’s how to do it.www.catchmoresteelhead.com
I don't see many people doing it on the north OP. I do see a ton of people bobber dogging which is similar but uses water tension on a float to drag a weight down the bottom slightly slower than the current, usually with a bead attached to a short tippet. People do the same thing with fly rods using a long leader, a piece of lead and a round float. It works but if I'm going to fish gear, I'll use a proper float rod and a centerpin or baitcaster as they are better tool for that kind of fishing in my opinion.
Sounds like you're quoting John McMillan's presentation on the Sol Duc from several years ago. Having seen first hand how the run size is estimated, I have very little confidence in the headline.Also WDFW knows the impacts of fishing from a boat already, 130% of a run was caught from one of the OP rivers.
Gotcha, thanks for describing. I generally consider just about every type of gear and tackle fair game outside of snagging, provided it’s allowed for in the regs. But continually rowing back to pound a run over and over does not sound like fair play, nor is it very sporting. Just head to the Sound if you want to do that, where the runs are a couple miles wide and the fish can go where they please.Basically ticking a piece of lead along the bottom with a bait or some sort attached as the boat drifts with the current. Where power is permitted, boats will do laps over the best spots. On rivers like the Cowlitz, there will be a convoy of big jet boats with a bunch of people in them doing laps. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Doing it from the bank is pretty challenging as it's all feel.
Side-Drifting for Steelhead — Catch More Steelhead
Side-drifting is a great searching technique for steelhead… here’s how to do it.www.catchmoresteelhead.com
I don't see many people doing it on the north OP. I do see a ton of people bobber dogging which is similar but uses water tension on a float to drag a weight down the bottom slightly slower than the current, usually with a bead attached to a short tippet. People do the same thing with fly rods using a long leader, a piece of lead and a round float. It works but if I'm going to fish gear, I'll use a proper float rod and a centerpin or baitcaster as they are better tool for that kind of fishing in my opinion.
Basically ticking a piece of lead along the bottom with a bait or some sort attached as the boat drifts with the current. Where power is permitted, boats will do laps over the best spots. On rivers like the Cowlitz, there will be a convoy of big jet boats with a bunch of people in them doing laps. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Doing it from the bank is pretty challenging as it's all feel.
Side-Drifting for Steelhead — Catch More Steelhead
Side-drifting is a great searching technique for steelhead… here’s how to do it.www.catchmoresteelhead.com
I don't see many people doing it on the north OP. I do see a ton of people bobber dogging which is similar but uses water tension on a float to drag a weight down the bottom slightly slower than the current, usually with a bead attached to a short tippet. People do the same thing with fly rods using a long leader, a piece of lead and a round float. It works but if I'm going to fish gear, I'll use a proper float rod and a centerpin or baitcaster as they are better tool for that kind of fishing in my opinion.
What is side drifting, for the uninitiated?
Sounds like you're quoting John McMillan's presentation on the Sol Duc from several years ago. Having seen first hand how the run size is estimated, I have very little confidence in the headline.
It is what numerous folks and guides resort to when they can't catch a fish utilizing only the angling skills and knowledge of the individual with a rod in his hands.What is side drifting, for the uninitiated?
That is used extrapolate angler impacts. It doesn't tell you the run size. So both the numerator and denominator are poor data that would not be used to make serious policy decisions in other fields.I believe it was from the creel survey data?
There’s a place for pursuing the path of greatest ease in fishing. For example, if you’re trying to get your seven year old into some bluegill, or even if you’re drunkenly floating a plentiful trout river on a bachelor party. I’m not one to judge. But to me, there’s no place for that type of fishing in modern day steelhead fishing, at least in the case of the dwindling wild stocks here in WA. How perverse.For record and clarity of my gripe with the technique I consider anything where you are essentially alpine trolling out of a boat. What do I mean by that? I'll unpack. I consider bobber dogging, indicator from a boat on the move, and side drifting as essentially the same. It allows the talentless to essentially troll in a way through every nook and cranny of holding and hiding water available to fish. It's extremely effective as you can cover a ton of water and offer a dead drifted presentation down the whole float. You generally fish longer floats and link floats together into mega floats as you don't stop to prospect. You just hop on the joy ride, cast out, and hold the rod as if you are trolling. For those that say I'm just angry cause it's effective I make no bones about that. It burns too much water per rod and results in too many unearned fish molested per rod. I got no qualms fishing from a boat. Hell, I swing from a boat on the duc or other hard to wade rivers. It's the boat on the move being used to exploit every pocket I take offense to. The fish are easily caught multiple times and it is so effective the impact is greater. Plus if I'm being honest it's simply a souless way to fish. A man's fishing should be an expression of his life. If it's so artless and souless then help haul a net in the lower and pose with some fish. Both tasks take equivalent skill.
There’s a place for pursuing the path of greatest ease in fishing. For example, if you’re trying to get your seven year old into some bluegill, or even if you’re drunkenly floating a plentiful trout river on a bachelor party. I’m not one to judge. But to me, there’s no place for that type of fishing in modern day steelhead fishing, at least in the case of the dwindling wild stocks here in WA. How perverse.
That is used extrapolate angler impacts. It doesn't tell you the run size. So both the numerator and denominator are poor data that would not be used to make serious policy decisions in other fields.
For record and clarity of my gripe with the technique I consider anything where you are essentially alpine trolling out of a boat. What do I mean by that? I'll unpack. I consider bobber dogging, indicator from a boat on the move, and side drifting as essentially the same. It allows the talentless to essentially troll in a way through every nook and cranny of holding and hiding water available to fish. It's extremely effective as you can cover a ton of water and offer a dead drifted presentation down the whole float. You generally fish longer floats and link floats together into mega floats as you don't stop to prospect. You just hop on the joy ride, cast out, and hold the rod as if you are trolling. For those that say I'm just angry cause it's effective I make no bones about that. It burns too much water per rod and results in too many unearned fish molested per rod. I got no qualms fishing from a boat. Hell, I swing from a boat on the duc or other hard to wade rivers. It's the boat on the move being used to exploit every pocket I take offense to. The fish are easily caught multiple times and it is so effective the impact is greater. Plus if I'm being honest it's simply a souless way to fish. A man's fishing should be an expression of his life. If it's so artless and souless then help haul a net in the lower and pose with some fish. Both tasks take equivalent skill.
The novice angler just shouldn't leave the river thinking "this steelhead fishing is pretty easy. I may have to do it again."Unfortunately the guide shops weren't having that and got it repealed the next year. I guess not being able to say you went 10 for 14 in the river reports is bad for business.
I never said any of that. My point was the data cited was bad and shouldn't be considered gospel in order to set policy. 150% of the run could have been caught for all we know. Or 70% or 40%.Yes, the data are imperfect. By criticizing the denominator - run size - are you saying that the reported decline and depleted status of OP steelhead is bunk?
Further, if those data are suspect, how could one ever prove that angling has no impact?
Sh!tty data cuts both ways. Just depends if one errs on the side of conservation or not.
Yep, the Klick is a shit show! Being raped by a few very greedy guide operations. Yet, no one has tried stop it. Why is that? When I guided on the Klick years ago the locals were even pissed about it. I took great pride in making Mitchell's guides and Reds very uncomfortable on the river.This is a real problem on the Klickitat. Mostly it's the couple fly shops that run a fleet of boats down the river. Roll cast out 15' and hang on! All the skill is in the rower. It doesn't give the fish any sanctuary and thy get caught over and over. Good for the executive who wants a fish pic for his desk but bad for the fishery. This is the main reason I like no boat fishing sections.
We did sort out a fix; mandatory retention of hatchery fish. If you want to catch fish by any means possible thats fine. You just have to tag out after a couple(they also raised the limit form 2 to 3). Unfortunately the guide shops weren't having that and got it repealed the next year. I guess not being able to say you went 10 for 14 in the river reports is bad for business.
This is a real problem on the Klickitat. Mostly it's the couple fly shops that run a fleet of boats down the river. Roll cast out 15' and hang on! All the skill is in the rower. It doesn't give the fish any sanctuary and thy get caught over and over. Good for the executive who wants a fish pic for his desk but bad for the fishery. This is the main reason I like no boat fishing sections.
We did sort out a fix; mandatory retention of hatchery fish. If you want to catch fish by any means possible thats fine. You just have to tag out after a couple(they also raised the limit form 2 to 3). Unfortunately the guide shops weren't having that and got it repealed the next year. I guess not being able to say you went 10 for 14 in the river reports is bad for business.
Thank you for typing this out.Further, all this tribalism around types of gear is tiresome. Long boards vs short boards, skis vs snow boards, tele vs alpine touring, Strats vs Les Paul, Ford vs Mopar, swinging vs nymphing, blah blah blah blah. It's stupid, doesn't do a fucking thing to help the situation and makes me wish I had never started this thread.