Tightline/ESN Rod suggestions please

[Tom Butler]

Ha Ha, all thoughts welcome. Here's where I'm at. Got plenty of rods and stuff, you all know that. I like the style, being right in there with the quarry. What I'm pretty sure I would like to do is upgrade my rod for tightline/esn style fishing specifically. I like fishing a ~20' 20# chameleon on a true euro line. I've tried 12# a lot and it just doesn't work as well. You know the shit I like to fish, usually a sz. 6-8 with 4.8mm or similar heavy, and at least one other weighted nymph, maybe even a weighted sz 6 pats. I just don't fish stuff smaller than 16. I'm figuring the day's I use this I won't be fishing a dry by itself, or stray outside the technique much. Just the ESN line all day will be fine. I figure there are places everywhere I'm likely to fish that a 10' rod is the best length because of trees, and I find that length hard enough to net fish over a 9' rod. Usually fish with 10' of the #20 beyond the rod tip, maybe short, maybe up to 25' of the euro line out the rod tip. Looking for something that would give me more for feel for the bottom and fish takes than the Echo Carbon XL Euro 10' 3wt. And more power down near the handle. I like that rod a lot, but I feel it's deficient in those two areas. And I bought and extra tip and haven't needed it. I want something that isn't fragile at all.
So what are peoples choices in rods in that 10' 3wt with fighting butt ESN purposeful style rod? Maybe best and mid price choice if not the best? Or is euro-nymphing just stupid and I should go back to bobber fishing.? I can do that too.

 

[Jake Watrous]

I really like my T&T rods, but have done well with a MaxCatch 11’ 3wt. Just not nearly as sensitive, stiff, or light.

 

[mcswny]

Paging @jaredoconnor

 

[Matt B]

I would probably just get the MaxCatch one, because if I started having serious thoughts of serious euronymphing I would buy the ESN rod, take the tip section and break it in half and then poke the broken ends up under my fingernails until I came to my senses.

 

[Creatch’r]

I would probably just get the MaxCatch one, because if I started having serious thoughts of serious euronymphing I would buy the ESN rod, take the tip section and break it in half and then poke the broken ends up under my fingernails until I came to my senses.

I’m legitimately laughing out loud.

 

[jaredoconnor]

I’ve only used 3wt euro rods, so I can’t comment on the higher line weights.

The Cortland 10ft 6in 3wt that I had was noticeably stronger in the butt than my Carbon XL. However, the tip was a bit softer. That made it great for tight line techniques, but it didn’t like casting a fly line heavier than a 2wt. Every other 3wt euro rod that I’ve used was about the same as my Carbon XL.

You’ve brought up this topic before and I do think you should try a 4wt euro rod. What’s holding you back? Maybe drop Devin Olsen an email and ask for his advice.

 

[Divad]

I've cast a few different ones but never really came at it with a scientific mindset. My buddy in Montana uses a MK2 by Cortland and likes it (this is a much different blank than the Nymph model I think Jared is talking about). When I cast it it was sensitive and light compared to the Carbon XL and Shadow 2 we had on the boat.

I wouldn't touch the Shadow 2 as I have heard is one of the lesser durable tips. Coming from a Carbon XL which is a strong sob, you'd be saddened by that factor. If youre diving into that mid price range you may want to look at Loomis IMX too. I do not think the Shadow X is worth it with so many other rods in that +/- $500 range.

The downlocking reel seat feature is nice to look for to keep fatigue down on your arm/wrist when you're choosing.

 

[RCF]

There is a big difference between Loomis IMX and IMX-Pro. I am assuming you are discussing the IMX-Pro.

I have owned both being a big Loomis fan. Loomis replaced one of my rods with an IMX-Pro. Not a fan for sure and sold it as fast as I could.

 

[Tom Butler]

I really like my T&T rods, but have done well with a MaxCatch 11’ 3wt. Just not nearly as sensitive, stiff, or light.

The T and T seems to be universally loved. Maybe why the moniker "the rod you'll eventually own".

I’ve only used 3wt euro rods, so I can’t comment on the higher line weights.

The Cortland 10ft 6in 3wt that I had was noticeably stronger in the butt than my Carbon XL. However, the tip was a bit softer. That made it great for tight line techniques, but it didn’t like casting a fly line heavier than a 2wt. Every other 3wt euro rod that I’ve used was about the same as my Carbon XL.

You’ve brought up this topic before and I do think you should try a 4wt euro rod. What’s holding you back? Maybe drop Devin Olsen an email and ask for his advice.

That's good idea, I'll do that.

I've cast a few different ones but never really came at it with a scientific mindset. My buddy in Montana uses a MK2 by Cortland and likes it (this is a much different blank than the Nymph model I think Jared is talking about). When I cast it it was sensitive and light compared to the Carbon XL and Shadow 2 we had on the boat.

I wouldn't touch the Shadow 2 as I have heard is one of the lesser durable tips. Coming from a Carbon XL which is a strong sob, you'd be saddened by that factor. If youre diving into that mid price range you may want to look at Loomis IMX too. I do not think the Shadow X is worth it with so many other rods in that +/- $500 range.

The downlocking reel seat feature is nice to look for to keep fatigue down on your arm/wrist when you're choosing.

I've looked at that Cortland MkII quite a bit. I just wish it came in 10'. I've fished all the waters around here and pretty sure I want 10' If I was going to the D or Yak I'd go longer I think, but I know having fished my 12' centerpin that that rod is too long for the conditions. It's still on my list, as maybe I'm wrong and want 10'6".

There is a big difference between Loomis IMX and IMX-Pro. I am assuming you are discussing the IMX-Pro.

I have owned both being a big Loomis fan. Loomis replaced one of my rods with an IMX-Pro. Not a fan for sure and sold it as fast as I could.

I've spent a lot of time looking at the Loomis IMX pro, and was really ready to pull the trigger, but I didn't see any glowing reviews, they were all kind of meh it seems.

Thanks for patience with me. I just don't know. Too much snow down time to think about this for sure. Still planning to have to go on a road trip to hold and hopefully use some before I decide.
I'm not sure but it seems a couple brands may be going to something new as certain models/lines have been on sale. More will be revealed. Thanks for your input all.

 

[Tom Butler]

Maybe this will help. I got a 8 1/2' 4wt Cortland brook fly rod, and when nymphing I can feel every contour and rock on the bottom. Super sensitive. But it's weak down low, like I think the Carbon XL is. My 9' 4wt Recon has about the right amount of power down low in the butt near the handle, and a touch more wouldn't be bad. But it's not as sensitive. I would like sensitive up top and power lower down, in 10'. Maybe the two are mutually exclusive? Just don't know enough to know, and confused and frustrated enough to not be afraid to ask for everyone's opinion.

 

[Crawbugger]

The T and T seems to be universally loved. Maybe why the moniker "the rod you'll eventually own".

That's good idea, I'll do that.

I've looked at that Cortland MkII quite a bit. I just wish it came in 10'. I've fished all the waters around here and pretty sure I want 10' If I was going to the D or Yak I'd go longer I think, but I know having fished my 12' centerpin that that rod is too long for the conditions. It's still on my list, as maybe I'm wrong and want 10'6".

I've spent a lot of time looking at the Loomis IMX pro, and was really ready to pull the trigger, but I didn't see any glowing reviews, they were all kind of meh it seems.

Thanks for patience with me. I just don't know. Too much snow down time to think about this for sure. Still planning to have to go on a road trip to hold and hopefully use some before I decide.
I'm not sure but it seems a couple brands may be going to something new as certain models/lines have been on sale. More will be revealed. Thanks for your input all.

I have the first generation TnT contact. It’s a great rod but its tip is very weak. It’s broken three times. Had it repaired and within 6 months the top guide broke. Fixed the tip myself and continued to fish it. Couple a weeks ago it broke again, this time between the third and second from the top guide. If I were going to do it again I’d try the Maxcatch in touch 10 ft 6 inch 4 it’s a 100.00 bucks shipped. Warning euro can be very addictive.

 

[Tom Butler]

Warning euro can be very addictive.

I know! I have addictive tendencies anyway and it's the perfect substitute for other things I used to do. I enjoy it.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Maybe this will help. I got a 8 1/2' 4wt Cortland brook fly rod, and when nymphing I can feel every contour and rock on the bottom. Super sensitive. But it's weak down low, like I think the Carbon XL is. My 9' 4wt Recon has about the right amount of power down low in the butt near the handle, and a touch more wouldn't be bad. But it's not as sensitive. I would like sensitive up top and power lower down, in 10'. Maybe the two are mutually exclusive? Just don't know enough to know, and confused and frustrated enough to not be afraid to ask for everyone's opinion.

Stiffer and lighter rods are more sensitive than softer and heavier rods, because more of the vibrations reach your hand instead of being dampened by the blank. Typically, you will lose some strength as a result.

Some folks put their index finger on the blank. Supposedly, the cork dampens sensitivity and having a finger directly on the blank helps. I could never get used to it, personally. Syndicate made a rod with a different grip material, specifically for this reason.

One last thing worth mentioning is that rod sensitivity isn’t really as important as people think. Everything that people try to achieve by feel is usually better accomplished by reading the sighter. The sighter is far more sensitive than any rod ever will be. Specifically, if you are waiting to feel a fish bite, you are probably missing bites and also setting the hook later than you could.

Using lighter line is also a factor here. A “12lb” (~0.013in) mono rig is much more sensitive than a “20lb” (~0.017in) leader attached to a nymphing line. It is harder to cast, but once you push through that the benefits are significant.

Last time you made a thread about euro rods, you were wanting something stronger. This time, sensitivity seems to be your main priority. The two are probably somewhat mutually exclusive. I think you probably do need something stronger, based on your last thread. However, it sounds to me like you need to read the sighter more and be less concerned about having a sensitive rod.

Given that you don’t plan to use your euro rod for everything else, like I do, you can probably find a more specialized 3wt that will meet your needs; a very soft tip and a very strong butt. Rods like that are great for tight lining, but generally don’t cast a fly line well. Rods from companies like Cortland, T&T and Diamondback tend to follow that profile. In comparison, Echo and Orvis make more versatile rods that cast a fly line relatively well.

 

[Tom Butler]

Stiffer and lighter rods are more sensitive than softer and heavier rods, because more of the vibrations reach your hand instead of being dampened by the blank. Typically, you will lose some strength as a result.

Some folks put their index finger on the blank. Supposedly, the cork dampens sensitivity and having a finger directly on the blank helps. I could never get used to it, personally. Syndicate made a rod with a different grip material, specifically for this reason.

One last thing worth mentioning is that rod sensitivity isn’t really as important as people think. Everything that people try to achieve by feel is usually better accomplished by reading the sighter. The sighter is far more sensitive than any rod ever will be. Specifically, if you are waiting to feel a fish bite, you are probably missing bites and also setting the hook later than you could.

Using lighter line is also a factor here. A “12lb” (~0.013in) mono rig is much more sensitive than a “20lb” (~0.017in) leader attached to a nymphing line. It is harder to cast, but once you push through that the benefits are significant.

Last time you made a thread about euro rods, you were wanting something stronger. This time, sensitivity seems to be your main priority. The two are probably somewhat mutually exclusive. I think you probably do need something stronger, based on your last thread. However, it sounds to me like you need to read the sighter more and be less concerned about having a sensitive rod.

Given that you don’t plan to use your euro rod for everything else, like I do, you can probably find a more specialized 3wt that will meet your needs; a very soft tip and a very strong butt. Rods like that are great for tight lining, but generally don’t cast a fly line well. Rods from companies like Cortland, T&T and Diamondback tend to follow that profile. In comparison, Echo and Orvis make more versatile rods that cast a fly line relatively well.

Thanks Jared, very helpful. I have gotten really used to watching the sighter. I've used my 10' 6wt stillwater and couldn't feel a thing, but it will cast a setup. And yes, I like the feel #12 leader gives me when the flies are working, but I MUCH prefer the #20 for handling and casting. Appreciate your input, confirms a lot of what's swirling in my head.

 

[clarkman]

Thanks Jared, very helpful. I have gotten really used to watching the sighter. I've used my 10' 6wt stillwater and couldn't feel a thing, but it will cast a setup. And yes, I like the feel #12 leader gives me when the flies are working, but I MUCH prefer the #20 for handling and casting. Appreciate your input, confirms a lot of what's swirling in my head.

You should try #8....lol...j/k. I've honestly gone from 20 to 10 to 8 to a purpose built leader and now back to 15....mainly because I like the ease of turnover more and like Jared mentioned, the vast majority of strike detection happens by watching the sighter.

 

[Tom Butler]

You should try #8....lol...j/k. I've honestly gone from 20 to 10 to 8 to a purpose built leader and now back to 15....mainly because I like the ease of turnover more and like Jared mentioned, the vast majority of strike detection happens by watching the sighter.

I have tried 8. I like trying stuff. Having 2 spools has allowed me to run a rig, cut it off at the ring, put the other spool with a different leader on, and retie the rig. I've tried a lot of different leader setups too, and the 1/2 line still has a loop.. It will be a nice upgrade when the Daniellson gets here though.

 

[Skimr]

I have an Orvis Helios 3F 3wt EN rod. Is 10’6”. Really like it. Has lots of power in the butt, but a nice sensitive tip.

 

[Tom Butler]

I have an Orvis Helios 3F 3wt EN rod. Is 10’6”. Really like it. Has lots of power in the butt, but a nice sensitive tip.

Thanks. I like Orvis. I looked hard at that 3wt 11' 3F Blackout they had on sale, but it wasn't quite what I wanted. On their site it seems a lot of the 3F offerings are not there so maybe they are changing something. I'm not ruling 10'6" out so thanks for the input.

 

[DerekWhipple]

Like Jared said, e-mail Devin. Tell him what you told us, where you're fishing, your budget, and he will have a rod for you. He helped me select a rod. He has a great online shop. He's fished in Eastern OR/WA too. I think he did biology work for a tribe at one time.

You can also e-mail Joe Goodspeed at Diamondback. He designed the Contact II, designs Diamondback's rods, and I think he even designed some of the Cortland nymph rods.

 

[greenriver]

Greys GR80 Streamflex 10' 3 weight $199 at Sierra with free shipping. These are on closeout from $400. I have one and like it.