Ocean Coho Leaders

[ThatGuyRyRy]

Earlier this this year I was using 50 lb fluro for trolling flashers. Basically to repeat, they are not leader shy.


That said, this weekend they barely touched the 50lb and I dropped it down to 30 and it made a huge difference

 

[Kfish]

I use a nylon taper leader but cut it off at about 4ft and tie it to a tippet ring, estimate strength for that section is about 40lbs at the tip. Then it's about 5ft of 15lb Maxima fluorocarbon.

I feel like the 15lb straight leader cuts too much into the fly line loop.

Fluoro doesn't seat a non slip loop knot as well as nylon, I use a perfection loop most of the time now.

 

[Greggor]

I use a nylon taper leader but cut it off at about 4ft and tie it to a tippet ring, estimate strength for that section is about 40lbs at the tip. Then it's about 5ft of 15lb Maxima fluorocarbon.

I feel like the 15lb straight leader cuts too much into the fly line loop.

Fluoro doesn't seat a non slip loop knot as well as nylon, I use a perfection loop most of the time now.

Nothing wrong with the perfection loop as tested with fluorocarbon.
Check out Knot Wars at the 2:00 mark. I'm stunned!

 

[Creatch’r]

For what it’s worth, I find the 17# Seaguar STS flouro to be about equivalent to maxima 15# UG in breaking strength but with better abrasion resistance and of course better sink rate. It can really take a beating that’s to be sure. No science of course, but I can straighten a size 1 owner SSW with both leader materials without breaking off and that’s an attribute I like on my hawg quests. “Hook size I can straighten” is actually the unit of measure I’d prefer printed on the label.

I’m not abandoning UG just yet because it is still old faithful in my eyes, and has caught me a lot of fish. But it does stretch a lot and abrasion can get ya when you least expect it so I’ve learned to be mindful. The STS 17# has become my go to for winter/spring steelhead on gear rods. Extremely impressed with its durability and performance there. If I trust it to run a worm in big buck country I’m good with it about anywhere.

One less turn on your non slip mono loop with flouro and it seats perfectly well for me. I do 4-5 turns with 15# or better and have had no issues but YMMV.

 

[G_Smolt]

Nothin' fancy. Usually 4'-5' of 30# mono butt, 2'-3' of 25# mono, and a 4' tippet of 20# fluoro, all blood-knotted together. I usually fish 7/32" and 1/4" eyes on my flies, so the taper doesn't really matter. Terminal knot is a non-slip loop 99% of the time, clinch or san diego jam when I solid tie.

And it bears repeating that the perfection loop is a fool's knot in anything less than 20-25lb mono/fluoro.

 

[Greggor]

And it bears repeating that the perfection loop is a fool's knot in anything less than 20-25lb mono/fluoro.

Hmm... I can't remember a single failure when fishing dozens and dozens of single egg trout leaders as a kid. Can you expand on your comment? Truly interested for the community.

 

[G_Smolt]

Not really much else to say. It's a garbage knot that rarely retains 50% strength in small-diameter mono/fluoro.

 

[DimeBrite]

Not really much else to say. It's a garbage knot that rarely retains 50% strength in small-diameter mono/fluoro.

Correct! Only use the Perfection Loop with 20 pound or stronger Fluoro leader. The Perfection Loop is a great knot, but will fail on larger fish when using lower diameter/strength Fluoro (10, 12, 15 pound).


20 pound (5-6 feet)
Nonslip Loop Knot (3-turns) to the fly

 

[Jake Watrous]

Correct! Only use the Perfection Loop with 20 pound or stronger Fluoro leader. The Perfection Loop is a great knot, but will fail on larger fish when using lower diameter/strength Fluoro (10, 12, 15 pound).

View attachment 76770
20 pound

I must be in the statistical minority. Every fish I’ve ever caught over the past 35+ years of fly fishing, from bigger fish like tarpon and tuna to smaller fish like brook trout and pea-mouthed chub, has had a perfection loop connecting the leader to the fly line. Grandpa used it exclusively, so that’s what I learned to use. I’ve never had a break at the perfection knot, no matter the diameter of the leader—even when using 5x as the butt section of the leader.

 

[Kfish]

Correct! Only use the Perfection Loop with 20 pound or stronger Fluoro leader. The Perfection Loop is a great knot, but will fail on larger fish when using lower diameter/strength Fluoro (10, 12, 15 pound).

View attachment 76770
20 pound (5-6 feet)
Nonslip Loop Knot (3-turns) to the fly

Thanks for the tips @DimeBrite ! I'll keep this in mind. Good to know 3 turns is good for non slip loop, I've been doing 4-5 with 15lb flouro so maybe that's why it doesn't seat so great.

 

[Grandpa Jim]

3 chum seasons ago I decided to use up some older PLine fluorocarbon that I was no longer fishing. I found that I had fewer break-offs with the 15 lb. PLine fluorocarbon than with the 15 lb. Maxima UltraGreen mono I was using. Surprised me. I've been using fluorocarbon in the salt ever since. I had switched over to STS Seagar fluorocarbon for steelhead gear fishing earlier and much preferred it over the PLine fluorocarbon (thinner diameter with same strength and abrasion resistance IMO).
In the salt I now use Seagar 12 lb. fluorocarbon for smaller flies and 15 lb. or 17 lb. for weighted stinger clousers or larger fish. 2 seasons ago I had a tug of war with a seal over a good coho that I hooked on the 17 lb. Seagar fluorocarbon. My size 1 Gamakatsu octopus stinger hook bent out without the line parting. That was impressive.
I pre-tie my flies to the leader and keep them in plastic sandwich bags in my wader pouch. I use a perfection loop to the fly line and a non-slip loop knot to the fly. Loop to loop with my fly line and run the fly back through the leader loop that is through the fly line loop, pull, make sure the loops are cinched up, and I am ready to fish. Picked that up from a steelhead fly guide on the OP. Most of my knots are tied at home where I can check to see that they are secure and nicely trimmed.
For swinging flies for steelhead/salmon I still use Maxima Ultragreen mono. Creature of habit... I use a 1' section of 20 lb. with a perfection loop to the sink tip and a 3' piece of 12 lb. double uni knotted together, non-slip loop knot to the fly. When I snag my fly up while fishing and have to break off, it seems to always break off at the double uni knot, rarely at the non-slip loop knot and never at the perfection loop knot. I then re-use the section of 20 lb. Maxima. I believe that the 20 lb. Maxima is probably easier on my sink tip loop when fishing and breaking off flies than a straight piece of 12 lb. or 15 lb. Maxima. I find that 15 lb. Maxima is very hard to break off and that is why I stick with the 12 lb.

 

[Greggor]

I pre-tie my flies to the leader and keep them in plastic sandwich bags in my wader pouch. I use a perfection loop to the fly line and a non-slip loop knot to the fly. Loop to loop with my fly line and run the fly back through the leader loop that is through the fly line loop, pull, make sure the loops are cinched up, and I am ready to fish. Picked that up from a steelhead fly guide on the OP. Most of my knots are tied at home where I can check to see that they are secure and nicely trimmed.

This^^^

One sandwich bag, insert paper divider, four pre-tied rigs per side. Fold sandwich bag in half. This has been a game changer for me, maximizing my fly swimming in water time.

note: I run the fly line loop thru the leader loop, then run the fly thru the fly line loop for a non-biting loop to loop connection. I can run upto a size 2 clouser with dumbbell eyes thru most fly line loops.

 

[jasmillo]

I think a lot of guys use perfection loops for salmon around here because of the ease and the fact we are using 15 -20 lb flouro to land coho that probably average 4 lbs through the season. I have been using it because it is easy. No issues so far. The only fish I have broken off was in the loop where the hook sits as Brian referenced above. The biggest salmon I’ve landed was only 7-8 lbs though.

I need to stop being lazy as the bigger fish start to show though. If I break off a 10lb coho at a perfection loop knot some of you will see an epic level beach meltdown.

 

[DimeBrite]

I didn't fully appreciate the problem using the Perfection Loop with 10, 12, 15 pound straight fluoro leader until I fished SE Alaska. Coho up there are routinely 8-12 pounds and fight pretty hot.
Puget Sound has a much scrawnier coho population, but by late August you might just hook a knot buster double digit fish.

 

[Divad]

Perfection loops only have one “bite” wrap whereas a nonslip has multiple.

I’ve seen some embarrassed people when shown the correct loop to loop connection as Gregor explained. Many wrongly stick the loop through the other and then the leader/fly though the same line loop.

 

[Greggor]

I’ve seen some embarrassed people when shown the correct loop to loop connection as Gregor explained. Many wrongly stick the loop through the other and then the leader/fly though the same line loop.

These are many of the same folks that complain about their fly line loop being damaged by loop to loop connections.

 

[Matt B]

Perfection loops only have one “bite” wrap whereas a nonslip has multiple.

I’ve seen some embarrassed people when shown the correct loop to loop connection as Gregor explained. Many wrongly stick the loop through the other and then the leader/fly though the same line loop.

I’m not following this. Can you show in pictures the right and wrong ways? I thought @Greggor was talking about looping on a whole new leader which already has a fly attached.

 

[Kfish]

This is an informative and timely thread, I need to level up my rigging technique. One heart break this season so far is one too many already
Going to redo my leaders when I get home, all those barnacles in VI must have done some damage for sure.

 

[Greggor]

I’m not following this. Can you show in pictures the right and wrong ways? I thought @Greggor was talking about looping on a whole new leader which already has a fly attached.

Yes, loop a whole new leader with fly attached.

Thread flyline loop thru leader loop, then thread fly and leader thru the flyline loop. I have yet to fish a fly I can't thread thru the flyline loop. Does not apply to monster sized flies.

 

[Divad]

I’m not following this. Can you show in pictures the right and wrong ways? I thought @Greggor was talking about looping on a whole new leader which already has a fly attached.

When done correctly a loop to loop connection will look like a figure 8. When done incorrectly you’ll have one loop with another lasso’d around it.

I’ve seen a lot of people do the latter. Maybe I’ll whip up a quick video when home