Balanced leech dropper question

[James St. Clair]

Apologies if this has already been discussed.

So I tied a bunch of balanced leeches. I'm talking about the ones with a jig hook and a pin extension with a bead. Have yet to fish them, mostly because I like to fish two flies, and I can't quite wrap my head around how this works. I guess for trolling, no big deal, just tie to the bend of the hook.

But, let's say I want to fish this under an indicator with a chironimid as a "dropper". I can't quite think of a way this makes sense. Tying off the bend of the balanced leech seems like it would unbalance the leech (chironimid has a tungsten bead, and it would pull the rear of the fly down, yeah?). If I tie to the eye of the leech, then it's hanging "through" the body material of the fly? Seems like that might result in some tangles. Then I thought maybe hanging it off the tag end of a double surgeons. This seems like maybe the best option, but at the same time with zero to minimal current I could see the two tippet pieces being too close to each other, resulting in twisting/tangles (since there is no current).

What do y'all do here with the balanced leeches when wanting a chironimid dropper? Any and all info appreciated, and thanks in advance.

Additionally, I appreciate all the responses to my previous thread regarding hiking to/from the water with a tube. Dive booties on order!

 

[Matt B]

Put the balanced leech on the bottom. Tie the chironomid on a short tag about 15-18” above that. Have not found tangles to be an issue this way.

 

[VAGABOND]

What Matt said ^^^

 

[troutpocket]

Another option is to tie another batch of leeches on scud hooks. That makes it easy to use the leech as a top fly and hang another pattern below. Heavy wire scud hooks #12 or #10 have large eyes so I tie off the dropper tippet there.

 

[James St. Clair]

I have a ton tied on jig hooks as well, so that is what I have been using in this situation, and tying the dropper tippet to the eye like @troutpocket. I was hoping I could use the balanced leeches I have tied in this situation as well. Sounds like if you keep the tag short for the chironomid there are no tangling issues, which was my main concern, so thanks for that info!

I was under the impression the chironimid was supposed to be closer to the bottom than the leech. Is that not the case? Maybe I'm just splitting hairs there, and if they are both relatively close to the bottom it doesn't matter?

 

[Matt B]

I have a ton tied on jig hooks as well, so that is what I have been using in this situation, and tying the dropper tippet to the eye like @troutpocket. I was hoping I could use the balanced leeches I have tied in this situation as well. Sounds like if you keep the tag short for the chironomid there are no tangling issues, which was my main concern, so thanks for that info!

I was under the impression the chironimid was supposed to be closer to the bottom than the leech. Is that not the case? Maybe I'm just splitting hairs there, and if they are both relatively close to the bottom it doesn't matter?

That's one theory of how to do it I don't know if there's a right way or wrong way or a supposed to be done way.
It seems like most of the time fish take the bottom fly regardless. If they start ignoring the leech and only hitting the chironomid, you can just replace the leech with another 'mid. Or if you're like me and lazy you might not change anything as long as the bobber keeps going under.

Edit/add: fish aren't always right on the bottom, either.

 

[SurfnFish]

overall leader length adjusted as needed, leech the bottom fly

 

[troutpocket]

@James St. Clair you will decide what you like best and discover all the exceptions to the rules as you go. As @Matt B suggested, putting the chironomids up top can work just fine. If you rig from the eye (I do) the pattern hangs at an angle….like a jig…and every pattern is better on a jig, right @Billy?

 

[Irafly]

James,

If you are using a true balanced leech, the best thing to do and as you’ve already recognized, the most logical thing to do is to fish it as the bottom fly.

@troutpocket did a great job showing how you can take just about any normal pattern and essentially “balance” it by tying your dropper tippet off the eye of your top fly. By doing this, the bottom fly will pull the eye of the top hook down. This method also increase the number of hook ups on the top fly versus tying off the bend of the hook, because it frees the hook up.

As for where chironomids are, they are mostly about a foot off the bottom, because that is where they stage after hatching from their bloodworm larval stage. Their depth will fluctuate as the bugs start to hatch and they start to slowly migrate to the surface. Even this can be interrupted though if something in the outside conditions change. They can reverse the process and drop back down to stage again if needed. As such, I’ve caught fish from the bottom all the way up to just an inch below the indicator on mid patterns.

 

[Irafly]

overall leader length adjusted as needed, leech the bottom fly


View attachment 112611

James, may I good heartedly caution you away from using a swivel

 

[SurfnFish]

James, may I good heartedly caution you away from using a swivel

yea, personally use an oval tippet ring...just giving him the idea

 

[Old406Kid]

I was under the impression the chironimid was supposed to be closer to the bottom than the leech. Is that not the case? Maybe I'm just splitting hairs there, and if they are both relatively close to the bottom it doesn't matter?

In theory I agree, but like others have said I fish the leech on the bottom with a non-slip loop knot so it can move freely and the chironomid above. If I'm getting hits but not hooking up on the leech I'll switch it out for another chironomid.

 

[tkww]

I usually tie the dropper in via the eye of the leech if when I'm using a pin-balanced jig version.

 

[Stonedfish]

Another option is to cut a cheap hook and create a second eye to tie the dropper to on bottom of the balanced leech. I did it years ago and caught fish with that set-up.
SF

 

[dep]

another suggestion:
get the two rod endorsement and fish each bug on different rods

 

[Tom Butler]

get the two rod endorsement and fish each bug on different rods

It sounds good in theory. I did it again this year. I can't figure out how to set the hook on the bobber rod while fighting a fish on the stripped line. Just struggling to figure some different stuff out overall so far this year.

 

[Irafly]

It sounds good in theory. I did it again this year. I can't figure out how to set the hook on the bobber rod while fighting a fish on the stripped line. Just struggling to figure some different stuff out overall so far this year.

Step 1: Drop Rod with the hooked fish to set the hook on the indicator fish.

Step 2: Realize that you were not quick enough on the indicator.

Step 3: Grab the hooked fish and realize it has slipped away.

Step 4: Question your life choices.

Works every time for me.

 

[Irafly]

Another option is to cut a cheap hook and create a second eye to tie the dropper to on bottom of the balanced leech. I did it years ago and caught fish with that set-up.
SF

I did this with my original balanced patterns, pre the straight pin idea. I tied another hook eye into my hook so I could tie in my tippet to the middle eye or the front eye. This worked until I hooked a fish while fishing a pattern balanced, and pulled up only the eye of a hook. After that I just put the clipped off eye out the front. As soon as I saw doing the same with a straight pin I switched over.

 

[LBL]

Step 1: Drop Rod with the hooked fish to set the hook on the indicator fish.

Step 2: Realize that you were not quick enough on the indicator.

Step 3: Grab the hooked fish and realize it has slipped away.

Step 4: Question your life choices.

Works every time for me.

Today: Step 5 - lunge after the first rod as it careens out of the raft almost taking a swim.
Step 6 - be lucky enough to fish first fishing rod back with second rod on first rods floating fishing line. (I can provide diagrams and charts.)

 

[Stonedfish]

I did this with my original balanced patterns, pre the straight pin idea. I tied another hook eye into my hook so I could tie in my tippet to the middle eye or the front eye. This worked until I hooked a fish while fishing a pattern balanced, and pulled up only the eye of a hook. After that I just put the clipped off eye out the front. As soon as I saw doing the same with a straight pin I switched over.

Never had that problem myself but then again I’ve been know to use copious amounts of super glue.
SF