Are you watching what is happening in Olympia?

[Rob Allen]

If you cannot buy it without state approval ( a permit) it's not a right. Blatantly unconstitutional.
A right delayed is a right denied also unconstitutional.. two strikes..

Nice as I can possibly be... no amount of gun crime can negate such criminal activity by government agencies let alone the state legislators.

 

[Roper]

Honestly though, how would this one be a bad thing? Maybe I'm too naive, maybe not.

All those others you listed, I completely agree with your take...but this one (at least in theory) makes sense to me.

Well, as of yet the requirements for the live fire have not been defined. If this passes without defining the specific parameters and result/passing grade it could take years before is done. Then, no new guns…

 

[Roper]

HB 2118 is plainly crafted to drive FFL holders out of business through draconian and onerous requirements. Every FFL holding firearms dealer that I've ever frequented has a very secure facility (already incentivised to do so to protect an extremely high value inventory).

Furthermore, I'm unaware of FFL facility firearms burglary contributing to illicit possession of firearms by criminals as a problem requiring legislation. While I'm sure gun store breakins do occur, I believe it's a rare occurrence, since such businesses are definitely not soft targets.

Agreed, but Fast and Furious didn’t fare so well…

 

[SurfnFish]

A fair number of idiots think you can shoot somebody to protect property.

isn't that not only legal but encouraged in Florida?

 

[Rob Allen]

Keeping my mouth shut.......

 

[Roper]

Only a fool would think this will do (if passed) anything to stop the daily shootings in the greater Seattle area. But then there’s plenty of fools out there. And they vote in the other fools that propose such legislation. All the recent legislation passed in Washington has done absolutely nothing to prevent crime. None of the guns banned recently have been used in the shootings. Why is it neighboring Idaho doesn’t have the nightly news issues we have? What Is Washington is afraid of about law abiding citizens?

 

[speedbird]

Only a fool would think this will do (if passed) anything to stop the daily shootings in the greater Seattle area. But then there’s plenty of fools out there. And they vote in the other fools that propose such legislation. All the recent legislation passed in Washington has done absolutely nothing to prevent crime. None of the guns banned recently have been used in the shootings. Why is it neighboring Idaho doesn’t have the nightly news issues we have? What Is Washington is afraid of about law abiding citizens?

This isn’t being pushed by people knowledgable about or being victimized by gun crime, but rather the people in denial of Seattle‘s crime problem, and suburbanites who are simply unaware of it

 

[krusty]

This isn’t being pushed by people knowledgable about or being victimized by gun crime, but rather the people in denial of Seattle‘s crime problem, and suburbanites who are simply unaware of it

I always wonder if legislators proposing gun control 'solutions' have ever actually consulted law enforcement professionals regarding the elements of such proposals.

 

[wanderingrichard]

A fair number of idiots think you can shoot somebody to protect property....car prowlers, trespassers, porch pirates and such. A righteous use requires a threat to human life. There are specific criteria that define what constitutes a reasonable expectation/fear of bodily harm justifying a lethal force response.

Even then a CPL holder should be fully aware of the considerable civil liability associated with lawful use...as the survivor or their family generally presses forward for damages from the loss of their splendid family member.

A well constructed CPL training course will discuss such issues in considerable depth, including how to minimize civil liability should such a tragedy occur.

Plaintiff's attorney will do everything they can to paint the CPL holder as a gun loving lunatic who loves to shoot people.

Krusty, some states, you can legally do MOST of what you're not liking there. In some cases, theft of movable property, especially at night, the theif pretty much forfiets their rights under the law, and the property owners have the right to use lethal force to stop them..

" Castle Doctrine" as it's commonly known. Reality; as you know, it doesnt apply in all states. Massachusetts, for example, requires you to flee your home before you can fire in "self defense".

I've done CCL/CCW classes in 3 states over the years I'd traveled state to state for work. Each presented the Force Continuim concept as part of the training, but it wasn't emphasized as much as it should have been. As in, only one chapter covered it for under 30 minutes when I took the class in Texas in 97. Pennsylvania about the same, and South Carolina just mentioned it in passing.

Conversely, training for private security in TX, we spent a full state mandated 8 hours on it, and some people still didn't get it.

That's really sad, because if you have a good grasp on the Force Continuim, you quickly realize that you need to learn other defensive methods other than just reaching for the firearm first.

The writings of Massad Ayoob are a good place to start for anyone interested in legally carrying a firearm for defense of self and family. In this day and age, you can and will, get sued for legally defending yourself, and he covers that.

None of these proposals are going to stop criminals from getting and using illegally obtained firearms. None of them pass the smell test under Bruen or Heller. All these will continue to do is further the illegal disarmament of law abiding citizens.

 

[wanderingrichard]

Agreed, but Fast and Furious didn’t fare so well…

And Mexico is STILL getting slapped in the face by cartels using F & F weapons that continue to pour in.

 

[speedbird]

And Mexico is STILL getting slapped in the face by cartels using F & F weapons that continue to pour in.

For what it is worth, I remember reading that the vast majority of weapons in Mexico in fact come from us, which could be used as an anti second amendment argument

 

[Old406Kid]

you quickly realize that you need to learn other defensive methods other than just reaching for the firearm first.

So...at 74+ years of age what would the alternatives be?

 

[speedbird]

Just got a notification of a robbery literally down my street right next to UW. Thank God for that gun free zone!

 

[Dustin Chromers]

I always wonder if legislators proposing gun control 'solutions' have ever actually consulted law enforcement professionals regarding the elements of such proposals.

Why would they? Their voters practically clamour in mass to be governed harder cause they personally are not gun owners and for whatever reason don't believe others should be either. Governance in the modern parlance is about getting elected again rather than effectively legislating or solving a public safety problem. All you need is to either fight the other side of the aisle publicly and flamboyantly or be a loud and proud supporter of an ideal with little thought to it's impact or implementation.. Speaking to an expert is wasted time especially if your voting base is largely made up of those who would prefer to defund and castrate law enforcement.

 

[Rob Allen]

Wow, I just wrote a big long detailed post. Then I decided to delete it.

Simple fact. Permissivness towards criminals breeds more crime, this is especially true when it comes to drugs, even pot as legalization has increased illegal Marijuana trafficking.
You cannot be pro drugs and anti-gun crime. They are the same thing.

 

[SurfnFish]

So...at 74+ years of age what would the alternatives be?

x2...at 74, my Kenpo sparring days are a dim memory in the rear view mirror
Sense that many would shoot someone over thievery. Aside from having insurance that will cover any sort of theft, nothing I own is worth killing someone over, and having to live with that death.
Conversely, will not hesitate to respond with armed force to protect my wife or myself from violence.

 

[Rob Allen]

x2...at 74, my Kenpo sparring days are a dim memory in the rear view mirror
Sense that many would shoot someone over thievery. Aside from having insurance that will cover any sort of theft, nothing I own is worth killing someone over, and having to live with that death.
Conversely, will not hesitate to respond with armed force to protect my wife or myself from violence.

You cannot have a safe home without the right to defend it including the use of deadly force. The stuff in your home may not be worth a criminals life but the fact that it is your home is worth more than every criminals life and there is nothing morally objectionable with killing them. An attack on your home has to be viewed as an attack on you and your family, because it is. Any law that requires you to flee your home to save the life of a criminal is flat out evil.

 

[SurfnFish]

You cannot have a safe home without the right to defend it including the use of deadly force. The stuff in your home may not be worth a criminals life but the fact that it is your home is worth more than every criminals life and there is nothing morally objectionable with killing them. An attack on your home has to be viewed as an attack on you and your family, because it is. Any law that requires you to flee your home to save the life of a criminal is flat out evilit's a given that someone breaking into an occupied house should expect to be met with lethal response, something both my wife and I are prepared to do.

Someone breaks into our house if we're at home will be met with lethal response, that's a given for most if not all of us.
As to the rest...we all should live according to our morals and values, and act accordingly.

 

[krusty]

Home invasion constitutes very clear grounds for a lethal response, as does an attempted car hijacking or attack by an assailant.

I've lawfully carried for decades, and will continue to do so. I've only come close to actually unholstering in response to an overt serious threat once, and sincerely believe that the aggressor (a 300+ lb extremely belligerent drunk at a boat launch) finally sensed that my hand in my waistband did not bode well and left with his obviously embarrassed adult son (who I suspect had been dealing with his dad's misbehavior forever).

A good ending for all concerned.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Once the barrier of a home is broken all bets are off. You didn't decide to make your stuff worth more than a life. The person breaking in decided their life was worth less than your stuff. Besides, I don't know their intentions.