Oregon
Wouldn’t WFC leadership then be stepping on the toes or low-holing NFS leadership if they headed south to fish?
SF
Oregon
Time for a bass boat!Looks like my Hyde drift boat is going up for sale…
So....I just talked with the NMFS biologist. Boy, this thread is filled with a lot of stuff that doesn't apply. A few facts:
The co-managers, WDFW and the Skagit tribes submitted the application to renew the RMP in January 2022. Hardly late or even last minute. Note: the 2022 escapement estimate and 2023 runsize forecast were NOT necessary in order to submit a satisfactory application. This explains why WDFW made its announcement back in December and why NMFS said sooner than later last month.
NMFS completed its review process in January 2023, delayed due to loss of the biologist previously assigned to the Skagit review.
The NMFS RMP triggered consultation with USFWS regarding bull trout and any other ESA species under USFWS jurisdiction. USFWS began its Biological Opinion (BO) in late 2022. (In case we're looking for a scapegoat. Yes, it's about those very same ESA listed bull trout for which anglers are allowed to retain two over 20" whenever the Skagit system is open to fishing.)
USFWS is currently wrapping up its BO and waiting to get it signed (that would presumably be the USFWS Regional Director in Portland).
As soon as NMFS receives the USFWS sign off, NMFS will sign a couple documents and send across town to WDFW. WDFW can open the river ASAP at that point.
It seems the leadership of the orgs are anglers.
I’ve always wondered where they actually like to fish, especially for steelhead since they sure seem to like to sue or keep things closed or limit angling opportunities around here.
SF
Pretty broad brush you’re painting with there.Those guys are a bunch of clave dudes that would rather virtue signal and talk gear, history, and figurative fish rather than actually fish. There's lots of stupid people in this world that will believe stuff cause it feels good or they think it makes them look cool. They like you to think they like to fish. Some maybe do but I bet a majority of them have yet to even see a steelhead in reel life let alone on the end of their line. It's high society activism shit with a little genuine concern thrown in there to seem legitimate.
Pretty broad brush you’re painting with there.
I was on the NFS board for several years and still support them.
I almost never use a spey rod or even a fly rod for steelhead. I don’t give a goddam about hatcheries. I never support litigation except in last resort emergency situations. So I obviously disagree with some of their work. I told the Exec Direct this to his face at dinner after we went steelhead fishing two weeks ago. I went 3-for-6 on steelhead with my baitcaster and float rods last Sunday. I think I’m in the 8-for-12 range for the season which is a bit low for me but weather has been tough so I’ve only been out about 10 times, not counting back yard fishing.
I’m not an exception to the rule.
Lumping all .orgs into a single group and bashing them as a single unit is not part of the solution to this problem. They are as distinct as any other constituency. It is a contributor to the current problems, not something that helps advance solution. Personal attacks are just dumb if you want change, they entrench animosity instead or spanning divides. There is room to work together even when there are disagreements on policy which is why I also support groups that disagree with some of NFS’s positions.
It’s a lot easier to be lazy and talk shit over the internet than it is to have a discussion with someone who thinks differently in person and try to find common ground and mutual respect. People can do whatever they want but I’m trying to not be lazy with my limited time left in the planet.
Everybody just looking for somebody to be mad at.
Yah, he is a good person and a friend. He sucks at golf though.Charles - glad you had a generally positive experience with the NFS river steward. That’s the part of their work that I actively support.
DC-
I don’t think _anything_ about the caricature Forks examples you cite, funny or otherwise.
What I think about are things like the lack of objective data to make decisions resulting in nonsensical seasons and harvest rules.
I have limited resources, time especially, so I want to maximize any small impact I might have on getting to a better place. Lumping, stereotyping and increasing animosity are not in service of those goals so I do
my best to avoid it including in the causes I support, sometimes with limited success but I’m trying.
Rationalize your comments however you want, that’s your prerogative. I don’t see it helping anything except maybe personal catharsis.
This thread is clearly not working. River still closed. It's time to schedule a series of ZOOM meetings to talk through possible solutions.
Bingo bango, all data/science aside, this is really what it boils down to.Even Steelhead Jesus can't save us from the .orgs The real byproduct of all their lawsuits is POWER. Far more impactful than money, the ability to influence policy at the state/federal level F's up the already difficult process of managing Steelhead and Salmon populations where multiple stakeholders have vested interests. So you get WDFW and the Tribes on the same page regarding allowable impact, all that's needed is approval from the Feds. But (at least in part) because of apprehension that they'll be sued NMFS drags their feet and Voila! No Skagit/Sauk Steelhead season. I'm sure the Native Fish Society and WSC leaders are sitting around a fire right now, sipping their Chardonnay and congratulating each other.
If I'm honest with myself and others as I try to be I'd have to plead guilty to your statement. To be fair though I got lots of people to be mad as do most people that like steelhead, anglers or not.