Puget Sound

[Mossback]

Summer Chum near me spawn in September in one of the local rivers. Given the warmer than usual temps this winter, I suppose some overachiever fry could be out and about, but have seen no real evidence of them yet.
The rise forms you described are exactly what I saw in the colored fish we were talking about.

 

[skyriver]

To me they look more like some of the coastal cutts that get stocked in some of lowland lakes. Maybe some travelled an outlet to the salt and it's a legacy?

I think that's possible.
THis one from @Stonedfish has that Montana Black Spotted look to it. I've seen "resident" coastal cutts look like that, but not SRCs. But I think these things are just like steelhead. Nobody knows why some go to the salt and some do not. And some even go after spawning as residents! Diversity of species is a good thing!

 

[speedbird]

When I was catching fish for CCC's Big Fjord Project we were using photos of the left side of the head/gill plate for the spot pattern photo-ID. Photo ID is a powerful tool! Pioneered by Canadian researchers on killer whales in the early/mid-70s, it's now used all over the world on many different species.

Wasn’t it Micheal Bigg’s team?

 

[speedbird]

Summer Chum near me spawn in September in one of the local rivers. Given the warmer than usual temps this winter, I suppose some overachiever fry could be out and about, but have seen no real evidence of them yet.
The rise forms you described are exactly what I saw in the colored fish we were talking about.

When I was trapping fish with the hood canal salmon center my boss mentioned the summer chum go out to sea around now

 

[Stonedfish]

A bit dated, but interesting info regarding summer chum fry starting on page 14 of this document.
SF

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/00155/wdfw00155.pdf

 

[Matt B]

pink fry? It takes an accumulation of "degree days." One of the predicted effects of warming waters in the PNW is earlier salmonid emergence timing...

 

[Stonedfish]

pink fry? It takes an accumulation of "degree days." One of the predicted effects of warming waters in the PNW is earlier salmonid emergence timing...

Matt,
It could be, but no pink bearing streams nearby that I know of in the area I was fishing. I've never seen or caught a pink there.
Most of the streams as well as the Hoodsport hatchery which releases fry are quite a distance from where I was. I'd think pink fry would tend to migrate north towards the straits rather than heading south, but I'm not sure and maybe they do. Can you shed some light on that?

This is old info from 2009 I believe and I’m not sure what the current fry release stats are from the Hoodsport hatchery, but the cutts will have plenty of fry to eat.
SF

 

[speedbird]

pink fry? It takes an accumulation of "degree days." One of the predicted effects of warming waters in the PNW is earlier salmonid emergence timing...

We have been having spring weather this February, I wonder if that could be pushing a few Summer chum out earlier than expected

 

[Smalma]

The variation in the coloration/spotting of our coastal cutthroat is pretty interesting and seems to influenced by a number of factors. Genetically the resident and anadromous fish are similar and as mentioned earlier both life histories can be found in the same population. The first factor in that coloration variance is the environment in which it is found. A cutthroat found in tannic beaver pond looks much different in one found in a deep lake or Puget Sound. Another factor is the diet of the fish with those whose diet include critters like crab, shrimp, krill, copepods, etc. tend to have more intense colors. A third is the life stage of the fish; a parr (or small stream adults the retain their parr marks) look much different than a smolt which in turn looks different than older fish. Another fact is the maturity of the fish with the onset of sexual maturity both sexes take on a deepening of their coloration with the males becoming much colored. Many of the post spawn/repeat spawners retain some of that spawning coloration often resulting in the largest (oldest) males being the most highly colored in the population. It could also be that the more dominate fish/male have more intense coloration (have seen than in bull trout and it is probable in other species - for example the size of the hump on male pinks). Then of course there is just random individual variation.

I think of the more interesting spotting I see in sea-runs is those occasional fish with those pencil to dime size yellow/gold spots. When I see one of those fish I always smile. Typically, those fish have a single spot though may see up to 3 spots. One special fish that produce a broad grin was better than 20-inch fish had 5 spots.

An odd spotting I saw on the Skagit was a sea-run with fewer than normal large "x" spots. Saw that twice one year (likely the same fish - was the same size) and another similar sized fish the following year. Those were the only examples of that spotting that I have seen in more than 60 years of sea-run fishing.

Westslope cutthroat are fairly common in the headwaters/upper reaches of many of the Puget Sound systems (generally thought to have been established from dropouts from alpine lakes. While I have never seen one in the salt have seen 7 or 8 over the decades in the tidal influence reaches of several north Puget Sound rivers.

Once in a great while we see some rare genetic condition or color phases. I have seen a single albino cutthroat (probable adult( in a small Snoqualmie tributary. Equally striking were the two blue colored 8 inch rainbows (one in a Skagit tirb. and the other in a Yakima trib.) .

All this variation has the ability to generate a "how neat is that" response from even the most jaded of us fishers when we find one on the end of our line?

Curt

 

[Matt B]

Matt,
It could be, but no pink bearing streams nearby that I know of in the area I was fishing. I've never seen or caught a pink there.
Most of the streams as well as the Hoodsport hatchery which releases fry are quite a distance from where I was. I'd think pink fry would tend to migrate north towards the straits rather than heading south, but I'm not sure and maybe they do. Can you shed some light on that?

Haha, nope, I sure cannot, no clue.

 

[Tallguy]

Haha, nope, I sure cannot, no clue.

Skokomish pinks?

 

[Mossback]

A bit dated, but interesting info regarding summer chum fry starting on page 14 of this document.
SF

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/00155/wdfw00155.pdf

From this info, it would appear the Summer Chum may be starting to emerge, which would seem likely given the warmer than average temps. The smaller aggregate numbers of those Summer fish make it seem probable that when they hit the salt here shortly, it won't be lights out fishing, as there's not a lot of them compared to Fall Chum.
In short, stay home and don't bother coming out here.

 

[Stonedfish]

The variation in the coloration/spotting of our coastal cutthroat is pretty interesting and seems to influenced by a number of factors. Genetically the resident and anadromous fish are similar and as mentioned earlier both life histories can be found in the same population. The first factor in that coloration variance is the environment in which it is found. A cutthroat found in tannic beaver pond looks much different in one found in a deep lake or Puget Sound. Another factor is the diet of the fish with those whose diet include critters like crab, shrimp, krill, copepods, etc. tend to have more intense colors. A third is the life stage of the fish; a parr (or small stream adults the retain their parr marks) look much different than a smolt which in turn looks different than older fish. Another fact is the maturity of the fish with the onset of sexual maturity both sexes take on a deepening of their coloration with the males becoming much colored. Many of the post spawn/repeat spawners retain some of that spawning coloration often resulting in the largest (oldest) males being the most highly colored in the population. It could also be that the more dominate fish/male have more intense coloration (have seen than in bull trout and it is probable in other species - for example the size of the hump on male pinks). Then of course there is just random individual variation.

I think of the more interesting spotting I see in sea-runs is those occasional fish with those pencil to dime size yellow/gold spots. When I see one of those fish I always smile. Typically, those fish have a single spot though may see up to 3 spots. One special fish that produce a broad grin was better than 20-inch fish had 5 spots.

An odd spotting I saw on the Skagit was a sea-run with fewer than normal large "x" spots. Saw that twice one year (likely the same fish - was the same size) and another similar sized fish the following year. Those were the only examples of that spotting that I have seen in more than 60 years of sea-run fishing.

Westslope cutthroat are fairly common in the headwaters/upper reaches of many of the Puget Sound systems (generally thought to have been established from dropouts from alpine lakes. While I have never seen one in the salt have seen 7 or 8 over the decades in the tidal influence reaches of several north Puget Sound rivers.

Once in a great while we see some rare genetic condition or color phases. I have seen a single albino cutthroat (probable adult( in a small Snoqualmie tributary. Equally striking were the two blue colored 8 inch rainbows (one in a Skagit tirb. and the other in a Yakima trib.) .

All this variation has the ability to generate a "how neat is that" response from even the most jaded of us fishers when we find one on the end of our line?

Curt

I agree, those big yellow spots are pretty cool and unique. I always try and take pictures of the spots if I'm lucky enough to catch a searun sporting them, which isn't often.
SF

 

[Divad]

No cutthroat for me today sadly, managed to fool a little black mouth and rezzie.

 

[speedbird]

Do the little Blackmouth ever have white mouths? Last summer I hooked into a toothy half pound sized fish with small spots on its tail and white gums. Didn't get a photo, and right as it swam off I questioned whether it was a Blackmouth

 

[ffb]

I know I'm not the only one in this thread that misses the abundance of resident coho that used to roam around the south sound only a few years back.

I don't know if any of this is new information, but I emailed WDFW a few weeks back and just got a response from the hatcheries manager for the area. The gist of it seems to be that they've actually increased releases from the net pens and that the tribal fishery in the fall has remained good.

I've still been catching a couple here and there, but many areas where they used to populate in large numbers have been ghost towns. Super curious where these little guys are actually at, or if they are just spread out more in smaller groups instead of the huge schools that we used to see roam up and down certain areas.

 

[adamcu280]

Way cool! Do you have any examples you can post of that Adam?
SF

I don’t have anything special aside from the photos I sent in which were just clear portraits of the left side of the head but I know they’ve had a lot of resights of individual trout over the years. I’m sure they’re doing something like my friends are doing with whale sharks in the Philippines. I know other whale shark researchers are using constellation mapping software to streamline the process for matching the spot patterns.

 

[Divad]

I know I'm not the only one in this thread that misses the abundance of resident coho that used to roam around the south sound only a few years back.

I don't know if any of this is new information, but I emailed WDFW a few weeks back and just got a response from the hatcheries manager for the area. The gist of it seems to be that they've actually increased releases from the net pens and that the tribal fishery in the fall has remained good.

I've still been catching a couple here and there, but many areas where they used to populate in large numbers have been ghost towns. Super curious where these little guys are actually at, or if they are just spread out more in smaller groups instead of the huge schools that we used to see roam up and down certain areas.

View attachment 102704

Not even a few years ago, last year and the year before I was into consistent schools of them. I could sight fish groups of 20-40 sometimes. And some larger fish roamed. This year those couple beaches I had success with are desolate of fish, with other beaches holding a couple never the same numbers.

Then again I’m fishing from foot, so maybe this year they’ve tucked in elsewhere. I have a list of spots and coves I theorize they might be based on word of mouth. As many mention they move about each year. Time to sell a kidney for the Whaler I’ve wanted.

 

[ffb]

Not even a few years ago, last year and the year before I was into consistent schools of them. I could sight fish groups of 20-40 sometimes. And some larger fish roamed. This year those couple beaches I had success with are desolate of fish, with other beaches holding a couple never the same numbers.

Then again I’m fishing from foot, so maybe this year they’ve tucked in elsewhere. I have a list of spots and coves I theorize they might be based on word of mouth. As many mention they move about each year. Time to sell a kidney for the Whaler I’ve wanted.

If it makes you feel any better I haven't found the same action as years past, even with a Whaler....

Knowing that the releases are the same or larger does make me want to spend a day exploring more areas I haven't spent time in before though.

 

[Stonedfish]

I know I'm not the only one in this thread that misses the abundance of resident coho that used to roam around the south sound only a few years back.

I don't know if any of this is new information, but I emailed WDFW a few weeks back and just got a response from the hatcheries manager for the area. The gist of it seems to be that they've actually increased releases from the net pens and that the tribal fishery in the fall has remained good.

I've still been catching a couple here and there, but many areas where they used to populate in large numbers have been ghost towns. Super curious where these little guys are actually at, or if they are just spread out more in smaller groups instead of the huge schools that we used to see roam up and down certain areas.

View attachment 102704

Thanks for the info. If memory serves me correctly, the goal out of the net pens used to be 1.8 million fish, so 2.6 is quite an increase.
I wonder if they still do resident releases out of Minter or it has all shifted to Squaxin. Anyone know?
They used to clip different fins to identify which facility the fish came from.
I haven’t put in much effort the past few years, but when I have it hasn’t been anything close to what it used to be. It’s been that way for a while now, at least in my experience.
Not catching many either while targeting cutts, which used to be pretty common. It was fun to watch them increase in size from winter into spring plus they are great eating.
With that many fish released, you’d think they’d be readily available. Perhaps food source based for them being in different locations now or heading further north? I’m not sure.
SF