Switch vs spey recommendation

[coastalcutty]

Thanks all for the input and assistance! I made the leap and bought an Echo TR 13' 7wt with a Skagit head. Lots of opinions here and elsewhere led me to feel that was the best place to start.

I was out this weekend practicing casting and I've got a long way to go. I've watched tons of videos, so I think I know what to do to make both snap T and double Spey casts, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm doing wrong. The biggest issue is that my casts tend to pile up instead of straighten out.

In single hand casting I find this happens when my line gets long and I don't wait long enough for the rod to load. I assume it's about rod load with Skagit too, meaning I'm going too fast and the rod never loads or too slow, and losing the tension. I feel like I tried speeding up and slowing down. How can I pinpoint which one is the cause? Or is there another cause?

 

[RRSmith]

I was out this weekend practicing casting and I've got a long way to go. I've watched tons of videos, so I think I know what to do to make both snap T and double Spey casts, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm doing wrong. The biggest issue is that my casts tend to pile up instead of straighten out.

In single hand casting I find this happens when my line gets long and I don't wait long enough for the rod to load. I assume it's about rod load with Skagit too, meaning I'm going too fast and the rod never loads or too slow, and losing the tension. I feel like I tried speeding up and slowing down. How can I pinpoint which one is the cause? Or is there another cause?

I know a great guy that's a certified casting instructor - Joe Sugura. He lives in Nehalem and I've used him to help rid me of some bad habits (single hand). I believe Joe is also certified in spey - I know he's passionate about it for sure. It's the best $60/hour you'll ever spend. If you're interested, PM me and I can give you his contact information.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Thanks all for the input and assistance! I made the leap and bought an Echo TR 13' 7wt with a Skagit head. Lots of opinions here and elsewhere led me to feel that was the best place to start.

I was out this weekend practicing casting and I've got a long way to go. I've watched tons of videos, so I think I know what to do to make both snap T and double Spey casts, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm doing wrong. The biggest issue is that my casts tend to pile up instead of straighten out.

In single hand casting I find this happens when my line gets long and I don't wait long enough for the rod to load. I assume it's about rod load with Skagit too, meaning I'm going too fast and the rod never loads or too slow, and losing the tension. I feel like I tried speeding up and slowing down. How can I pinpoint which one is the cause? Or is there another cause?

That's an excellent rod. A piling cast is typically overpowered so a blown anchor or a non definitive stop on the final stroke of the cast. Finish with a high tip and a stop. Don't overpower the cast. The bottom hand drives the cast and energy should be metered.

 

[Bob Rankin]

I’m a long rod fan.. I started out with a 14’er in the late 90’s and stuck with it. I’ve owned some 11’ish rods and sold them quickly, but that’s just my weirdness. My shortest rod is 12’6” and I do like it a lot. I enjoy casting longer lines, but I also think longer rods are a little more forgiving while learning to spey cast, maybe not longer lines though…

Good luck in your journey!

 

[coastalcutty]

That's an excellent rod. A piling cast is typically overpowered so a blown anchor or a non definitive stop on the final stroke of the cast. Finish with a high tip and a stop. Don't overpower the cast. The bottom hand drives the cast and energy should be metered.

Thanks for the tips. I'll get out once this storm passes and try again

 

[skyriver]

As Dustin mentioned, could be a blown anchor or not a good forward stop.

The thing that helped me (still helps me) is to concentrate on the D loop. If that D loop is too skinny it's making things worse. With Skagit, you could have the right anchor, but if you don't have a sufficient D loop it's not gonna work. You need that to load the rod to get the power. And finding that perfect anchor will take some practice.

People that have casted overhead rods forever (like me) are also guilty of going too fast. This can screw up your anchor and the D loop. The 2 things that literally define spey & skagit casting. I have to tell myself to slow down the first hour on the 2-hander.

Now that you have your setup, get some video of yourself. I bet you'll see what you're doing pretty quickly.

Good luck!

 

[Dustin Chromers]

As Dustin mentioned, could be a blown anchor or not a good forward stop.

The thing that helped me (still helps me) is to concentrate on the D loop. If that D loop is too skinny it's making things worse. With Skagit, you could have the right anchor, but if you don't have a sufficient D loop it's not gonna work. You need that to load the rod to get the power. And finding that perfect anchor will take some practice.

People that have casted overhead rods forever (like me) are also guilty of going too fast. This can screw up your anchor and the D loop. The 2 things that literally define spey & skagit casting. I have to tell myself to slow down the first hour on the 2-hander.

Now that you have your setup, get some video of yourself. I bet you'll see what you're doing pretty quickly.

Good luck!

Just to pile onto a good post with great info I'll reiterate that skagit casting is extremely slow, lazy and deliberate feeling when executed properly.

 

[Pink Nighty]

I agree with the guys above. I've also found for me personally, my casting improved when I fixed my eyes on where I want my anchor, and then on my fly, until after I stop on the forward stroke.

Where I want my anchor varies on the situation, but is usually a few feet off my casting shoulder. Watching the anchor let's me naturally wrap my D-Loop around my anchor. I know when to fire my forward stroke by seeing my anchor turn broadside to the current as it gets picked up. Took too fast/slow out of the equation, just fire when the fly turns.

 

[coastalcutty]

As Dustin mentioned, could be a blown anchor or not a good forward stop.

The thing that helped me (still helps me) is to concentrate on the D loop. If that D loop is too skinny it's making things worse. With Skagit, you could have the right anchor, but if you don't have a sufficient D loop it's not gonna work. You need that to load the rod to get the power. And finding that perfect anchor will take some practice.

People that have casted overhead rods forever (like me) are also guilty of going too fast. This can screw up your anchor and the D loop. The 2 things that literally define spey & skagit casting. I have to tell myself to slow down the first hour on the 2-hander.

Now that you have your setup, get some video of yourself. I bet you'll see what you're doing pretty quickly.

Good luck!

By skinny, you mean not far enough behind you?

 

[coastalcutty]

I agree with the guys above. I've also found for me personally, my casting improved when I fixed my eyes on where I want my anchor, and then on my fly, until after I stop on the forward stroke.

Where I want my anchor varies on the situation, but is usually a few feet off my casting shoulder. Watching the anchor let's me naturally wrap my D-Loop around my anchor. I know when to fire my forward stroke by seeing my anchor turn broadside to the current as it gets picked up. Took too fast/slow out of the equation, just fire when the fly turns.

I've been watching my anchor like a hawk because on my single hand spey I would consistently pull it fully out of the water and catch the trees behind me, in the beginning.

Watching my anchor, I am sure that it is inline with where I want my cast to go and not getting the bloody L. What you're saying is that once your anchor is inline, that's the time to start the forward stroke?

 

[Pink Nighty]

I've been watching my anchor like a hawk because on my single hand spey I would consistently pull it fully out of the water and catch the trees behind me, in the beginning.

Watching my anchor, I am sure that it is inline with where I want my cast to go and not getting the bloody L. What you're saying is that once your anchor is inline, that's the time to start the forward stroke?

i think we are saying the same thing. When you set your anchor, your fly is facing upstream. When you form your D-loop, your fly is pulled to face the bank behind you. Right when it turns, bye bye.

 

[coastalcutty]

i think we are saying the same thing. When you set your anchor, your fly is facing upstream. When you form your D-loop, your fly is pulled to face the bank behind you. Right when it turns, bye bye.

That's really helpful for timing, I'll give it a try

 

[skyriver]

By skinny, you mean not far enough behind you?

Sort of. I mean you need a full/fat, exaggerated D rather than a skinny/steep D. This is a great video about it. Ashland Fly Shop has several good ones.
Here's a snip of what I mean:



And here's the full video-

 

[Otter]

Thanks all for the input and assistance! I made the leap and bought an Echo TR 13' 7wt with a Skagit head. Lots of opinions here and elsewhere led me to feel that was the best place to start.

I was out this weekend practicing casting and I've got a long way to go. I've watched tons of videos, so I think I know what to do to make both snap T and double Spey casts, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm doing wrong. The biggest issue is that my casts tend to pile up instead of straighten out.

In single hand casting I find this happens when my line gets long and I don't wait long enough for the rod to load. I assume it's about rod load with Skagit too, meaning I'm going too fast and the rod never loads or too slow, and losing the tension. I feel like I tried speeding up and slowing down. How can I pinpoint which one is the cause? Or is there another cause?

I bought that same Echo TR 13' 7wt. as my first double hander. I use an SA Skagit Extreme 520 grain 23' head, and usually 10 feet of T10. I first tried a 560 grain head, but found it a bit too heavy.
What head are you casting?

When I was first learning, I was told to slow down, then slow down some more. (Also, use less effort, and hold the rod lightly.)

I watched a lot of Skagit casting videos, and found these three were the most helpful, both in making better casts, and with reducing the shoulder pain that I experienced the first time I cast the rod. (My shoulders are old and injured.):

Brian Niska, showing how we rotate the upper body, not merely moving arms alone:


Bill Lowe (RIP), showing a snap T:


Bill Lowe, showing a double Spey:

 

[coastalcutty]

I bought that same Echo TR 13' 7wt. as my first double hander. I use an SA Skagit Extreme 520 grain 23' head, and usually 10 feet of T10. I first tried a 560 grain head, but found it a bit too heavy.
What head are you casting?

When I was first learning, I was told to slow down, then slow down some more. (Also, use less effort, and hold the rod lightly.)

I watched a lot of Skagit casting videos, and found these three were the most helpful, both in making better casts, and with reducing the shoulder pain that I experienced the first time I cast the rod. (My shoulders are old and injured.):

Brian Niska, showing how we rotate the upper body, not merely moving arms alone:


Bill Lowe (RIP), showing a snap T:


Bill Lowe, showing a double Spey:

Thanks, these videos are really concise and helpful. I have a Rio elite Skagit max power, 525 grains, 20'. I've been practicing with a 10' of T10 as well

 

[fatbillybob]

I think it will not matter. Who here only has one singlehand fly rod? Once you get your 1st 2 hand taste you will look for your second golden stick. I only started spey at the pandemic and I already have 5 spey rods. You can't go wrong switch or spey. Your line/tip pairing is as important as your rod choice in your casting success and casting pleasure.

 

[Pink Nighty]

One more thing with all this casting talk.... you'll catch plenty of fish with only your head or tip out. I absolutely love launching bombs across the river, but the actual situations where that is beneficial to fish catching are fairly limited. 95% of the fish I've hooked with 100ft of line out could have just as easily (probably easier) on a 60 ft cast from further downstream. Your control of the speed, depth and profile of the swing are greatly increased on shorter lines.

I'm personally in the phase of how to specifically target areas on the swing, where before I've been cast it far as fuck and let it ride. Recently I've been really focused on optimizing my swing through specific lies/holds, and it's much much easier to throw the little mend to sink it into the seam and then lift it across when you're not so far out. Chicks do dig the long ball though, cant deny that.

Lots of words to say just go get out on the river and let the casting come. Work the line thats comfortable for you, and work it with intent. My buddy who had never touched a fly rod, figured out how to flip 10ft of Skagit and a 5/5 mow tip and caught pinks at his feet til he felt like spey god.

 

[fatbillybob]

Totally agree with pink ^^^. I like the spey for 2 reasons, I don't need back cast room and I don't have to look at what might be behind me and I can pop a fly out <=60ft. with zero effort all day long where I would tire doing that with a single hand rod. It's all about line control!

 

[Brute]

I bought that same Echo TR 13' 7wt. as my first double hander. I use an SA Skagit Extreme 520 grain 23' head, and usually 10 feet of T10. I first tried a 560 grain head, but found it a bit too heavy.
What head are you casting?

When I was first learning, I was told to slow down, then slow down some more. (Also, use less effort, and hold the rod lightly.)

I watched a lot of Skagit casting videos, and found these three were the most helpful, both in making better casts, and with reducing the shoulder pain that I experienced the first time I cast the rod. (My shoulders are old and injured.):

Brian Niska, showing how we rotate the upper body, not merely moving arms alone:


Bill Lowe (RIP), showing a snap T:


Bill Lowe, showing a double Spey:

Bill Lowe is a good instructor...

 

[JodyRay]

I recommend practicing the Roll Cast and the Switch Cast. The Roll Cast is the basis of the power stroke for every cast, and the Switch Cast will help you develop your D-loop. It's incredibly important that the D-loop is in line with the anchor and target. You can have your anchor in the right place, but if the D-loop is not in line (180° principle or railroad tracks) you won't load the road correctly, the cast will be inefficient, and it crumbles. Also, just as in single hand casting, to get the line to lay out straight requires enough line speed. The line speed comes from the power stroke as it delivers the stored energy of the loaded rod from the D-loop. Same as a single hand rod: gradual acceleration to a sudden stop. Roll Cast

If you want to work on your anchor, get a small net float, attach some line to it and a weight. Set the line length to the depth of the water you're practicing in, which only needs to be a foot or so. Place the float where the anchor should be and then practice getting the anchor to land next to the float every time. Eventually muscle memory will tell you how much effort to put into the double spey or snap-t setup to get the anchor right.