Yet another compliance issue.
Stillie gamefish opportunities.
- Thread starter Denwor54
- Start date
They don't have to try and account for impacts on a fishery that they don't have.
I see that some of the NF Stilli comments on WDFW's NOF site focused on various gear limitations. Keep in mind that in 2022 the "fly fishing" impacts occurred after September 16th (the date the river opened). Historically in that stretch of river that late September period the Chinook are at their peak spawning (roughly 1/3 of the redds are constructed prior to that date. Suspect that much of the Chinook encounters where on spawning Chinook or fishing cruising the shallows. Such fish would be easily available with unweighted flies and dry lines.
I think from a strategic point it may to focus our efforts getting fall fisheries back we keep the regulations within the existing paradigm. The NF is fly only and the main stem is under selective gear rules. If we ever get to the point where getting summer fisheries back is on the table then further restrictions on the North Fork such as unweighted flies only, etc. could be reasonable.
Curt
I think from a strategic point it may to focus our efforts getting fall fisheries back we keep the regulations within the existing paradigm. The NF is fly only and the main stem is under selective gear rules. If we ever get to the point where getting summer fisheries back is on the table then further restrictions on the North Fork such as unweighted flies only, etc. could be reasonable.
Curt
If they shut the stream down, they don't have to even consider any impacts on Chinook. Even though poachers are gonna poach, the department does not have to factor the Stilly gamefish season impacts on Chinook because there is no Stilly gamefish season. So, for the purpose of counting paper stilly chinook, no season means no impact.
Whether their is adequate enforcement of not, having a stilly gamefish season makes the department try to account for impacts on Chinook from that fishery. People are fishing in the river when the chinook are present. When there are like 20 allowable impacts, having a season when those fish are present is difficult to justify. The fact that there has been documented impacts when the season was open does not help in any way.
The easiest thing to do is to not have the season. Then you do not have to count the impacts from the fishery. There is also no enforcement problem without a season, at least as it's related to counting impacts. This is because the impact from the season that you don't have is still 0.
Having no Stilly trout season makes all the impacts from that season go away. It's magic.
I am not saying that I think that this is the best outcome. It is the outcome that the system of paper fish allocation makes the most logical.
To clarify:
Anyone, whether they be fisherman or game warden knows that poaching or fishing illegally on the Stilly is almost considered a birth right to the locals. And it is no secret as to exactly where and when these activities take place. It has been so common that WDFW could probably be sued for entrapment by some tricky lawyer representing a poacher - ala the old No Fishing sign hidden by brush down on the Kalama years ago.
Throw in the reports from a few years ago that Snohomish County was no longer prosecuting game violations and what you essentially have is a get out of jail free card. In fact it's even better than that. You don't have to go to jail to begin with! As a law enforcement agency, why would you waste resources to patrol an area where violations will not be prosecuted?
It was in this climate that WDFW decided to open a gamefish season on a river with a fragile population of chinook. What the fuck did they think was going to happen? Now the perps don't even have to worry about hiding their cars! Catching them would have been simply a matter of enforcement showing up at the usual and accustomed locations and start issuing citations and taking prisoners. Oh wait! There is no punishment. Oops...
Folks will say that it's a people problem. And it is. So is murder, rape, assault, pedophilia, DUI, and on and on. But saying it offers no solution.
I have spent my time since Feb. 1st on the Skagit and Sauk. I have yet to see any enforcement presence. This is in a highly publicized and monitored fishery on ESA listed fish. As I recently reported I saw three violations one morning before breakfast. To those that will say "You didn't see them but they saw you." my reply is that I want to see them, lots of them. Visual presence is a deterrent.
Asshole people are a problem. No enforcement or punishment is also a problem. But those are two that can be fixed. If we get a second chance on the Stilly we need to scream bloody murder about getting some enforcement of the regulations.
Hillbilly Redneck
wishin I was fishin
Anyone remember the signs that were posted at the popular spots on the NF about 25 years ago. Someone was obviously frustrated with one of the local poachers.
The signs read something like “ My name is Joe Brown and I hit the water at 1:00 pm after all the legal fisherman have left the river…
I can’t remember the whole thing but Joe was a legend. Probably had 20 chinook in his freezer by forth of July.
The signs read something like “ My name is Joe Brown and I hit the water at 1:00 pm after all the legal fisherman have left the river…
I can’t remember the whole thing but Joe was a legend. Probably had 20 chinook in his freezer by forth of July.
...and a nasty dog that only took commands in Japanese!
HauntedByWaters
Life of the Party
Lol. Yes I do remember that but had entirely forgotten it until now. I recall when it occurred to me that Joe Brown had not posted that and realizing what was going on. At first I thought it was yet another fisherman with a huge ego posting some bullshit about themselves and hadn’t actually read it close enough for the details to click. Mad respect to the badass who put those together.
This gets me going too! If WDFW is not showing a presence of enforcement on rivers like the Skagit or Sauk...where the hell are they? Handing out tickets at suburban stocker lakes because Terry kept 6 instead of 5?
And I agree, if you close it then there are even fewer eyes watching it and absolutely NOBODY enforcing it. But they can say it's being "preserved". It's a joke.
Didn’t Joe Brown live up on Swede Haven?
Hillbilly Redneck
wishin I was fishin
Joe lived on the corner of Swede Haven and Hwy 530 right across the street from the fire station. I heard he passed away a few years ago and have'nt seen his kids or grandkids around for a long time.
I remember thinking at first that Joe himself had posted those and he was taunting the fly fisherman.
I met him up at Fortson in December about 35 years ago.
Watched a kid wade out at the head of the hole and send a hot shot down through. Fish on!!!
Fun to watch. I remember Joe really liked to chat it up
Watched a kid wade out at the head of the hole and send a hot shot down through. Fish on!!!
Fun to watch. I remember Joe really liked to chat it up
HauntedByWaters
Life of the Party
I’m pretty sure he was the guy I would see at Fortson a lot in the late 90s early 2000s with a full sink fly line and some treble hooks on the end. He apparently learned to blend in with a fly rod a bit more at that point. He was chatty. I was just a kid back then so I remember seeing those trebles and being shocked as hell. I was extremely ignorant about the world back then. It’s funny looking back on my earliest fishing memories and how many idealistic assumptions I held towards the rivers, the people that fished them, and WDFW. Now I know better. Now I know that people are savages and rules are for suckers.
I am not sure that even if the department could guarentee that having a season would result in 0 people targetting chinook that their would be a season. I think that although enforcement is an issue, the 18 total available impacts is the bigger issue.
It would be great if WDFW did a better job with enforcement. It has occurred to me before that maybe I should just determine when and where I want to fish and do it, regardless of rules. What is the actual chance that I get caught fishing the stilly? Take a raft in some sections and it probably appreaches 0%. It's also occurred to me that maybe the better thing to do when you see people posting summer chinook photos from the stilly that we find out who they are and show up and have a man to men discussion. If, in the end, that is what it takes to keep people from doing it, then maybe some pressure from the other people who are affected is the correct way to go. I have lots of conflicting thoughts.
I am not going to fish out of season.
It would be great if WDFW did a better job with enforcement. It has occurred to me before that maybe I should just determine when and where I want to fish and do it, regardless of rules. What is the actual chance that I get caught fishing the stilly? Take a raft in some sections and it probably appreaches 0%. It's also occurred to me that maybe the better thing to do when you see people posting summer chinook photos from the stilly that we find out who they are and show up and have a man to men discussion. If, in the end, that is what it takes to keep people from doing it, then maybe some pressure from the other people who are affected is the correct way to go. I have lots of conflicting thoughts.
I am not going to fish out of season.
I’m with you on that
I don’t think we’re going to need to worry about that however.
Maybe chinooks on the Stilly is just not going to happen / ever
