Dry Fly Leader Length

[Aleforme]

So a couple weekends ago, I was doing some dry fly fishing on lake bank and did pretty well but I notice I was having some trouble getting the fly to lay/extend out.

I was using a 5wt 9ft rod with a 9ft 3x Tapered leader and would tie either 5X or 3X tipper to the end once it had been cut back a bit from changing out fly. I notice the leader would lay out pretty well but the added tippet would die off and land in a bit of a mess. To be honest, I was probably in the 8 to 10 ft range for length with the tipper additions. I did notice from time to time the tapered section of the leader would also land in a mess as well.

I know part of this is my lack of casting skills but for the most part, I'm about cast well in the 20 to 35 foots range. Able to place flies where I want them.

Just wondering if there would be any benefit to going with a shorter 7ft leader like overall for dry fly casting? I was throwing dry flys ranging from #10 Chubbies to #14 Caddis and Humpies for reference. It was when I was throwing the smaller Caddis and Humpies that I was having the most trouble.

I haven't really tried building leaders at this point but might do so in the future. Just trying to keep it "simple" for now.

Jim

 

[mcswny]

My leader transitions from 0.015in, to 0.011in, to 0.007in.

I don't have the time or patience for leaders with more than three sections, anymore. The turnover isn't smooth, but it gets the job done.

If I fished more that 1 day out of every 7-10 days, I would probably agree with the second sentiment, but since I can't, I use the other 5 days to futz around with gear.

 

[Tom Butler]

If I fished more that 1 day out of every 7-10 days, I would probably agree with the second sentiment, but since I can't, I use the other 5 days to futz around with gear.

I remember when I got out once a month or a couple times a summer if lucky, and I often doubted my fly choice and setup. Now that I fish 4-6 out of 7 days it does give time to play with stuff and build confidence. Personally I think I spent too much time fixated on stuff that floats back in the day.

 

[Aleforme]

"9ft 3x Tapered leader and would tie either 5X or 3X tipper to the end "

Tying 5X tippet to a 3X leader could make a bad transfer of energy/hinge at the sudden diameter change. More so if (a) you had clipped the leader back already so it was thicker than 3X, and/or (b) the 5X tippet section was long. Do remember if you had the same problem when you tied 3X tippet to a 3X leader? For 98% of my trout fishing, I have a 9 ft 4X factory tapered leader and when it is new, I don't use tippet. I use tippet to replace the thin part where I have been clipping it off.

Thanks, that makes sense. I can't remember when I used what but it was either 5x or 3x. I would have been cutting back the tapered leader and adding for sure. Probably just the wrong formula and too long.

I might try out the 4X leaders as well.

 

[krusty]

Good luck with it. I like to put a ring on right where the tapered leader part ends (I use the micrometer and tie at 0x or 1X). then use other tippet. I just don't care for the tippet on premade leaders, seems to long or limp for my taste(?). I spend a bunch of time, especially after a couple fish, just trying out rigging stuff. Try your #14 humpy with a 12" 3x, then try 2', then 3', and see how it turns over. Try it with the 5x and see the difference. Try it with a same size nymph or softhackle and watch it lay out (or not). Maybe try a different brand tippet. I start by dividing hook size by three for tippet (I can't memorize that chart, and I think it's based on old school wets), then go thicker by one for bushy flies, and 2 for sinking flies with coneheads helps roll them over. The time I spend trying stuff pays off in the long run, as I gain confidence in riggings and my catch rate goes up. It's hard to change mindsets but trust me, it's worth it.

Yup...and tippet rings make experimentation a whole lot easier.

 

[wetline dave]

It seems like your issues are more about casting correctly. Get some lessons and get the basics down. Now if you were talking about 60 foot casts or so then tippet selection may be more of a factor.`

Dave

 

[Old Man]

If you go with a 4 or 3x your tippet won't fit into smaller flies. I use 5X for my tippet and even sometimes that size won't fit into the small eyes of a size 18 fly. I might of come up with a solution on how to fix it. Will try to make it work.

 

[Aleforme]

It seems like your issues are more about casting correctly. Get some lessons and get the basics down. Now if you were talking about 60 foot casts or so then tippet selection may be more of a factor.`

Dave

I agree my casting definitely plays a big part in this but in this case, my cast seemed to go to crap pretty quickly. I'm pretty sure I added tippet to the line just prior and I'm guessing I mismatched tippet size to the fly. Earlier in the day, I was laying out flies like a champ on a river at about 25 to 40 feet. I think it was probably a combo of not being an experience caster, long day of casting (tired arm) and just not paying to attention to leader length and tippet/fly size. I just need to pay more attention to what I'm doing.

 

[Creatch’r]

I mainly use 7.5’ tapered leaders and add tippet to get me to a rod length total leader (plus
or minus) for walk and wade small freestones and for fishing from a boat on the move. I just like the way they lay down. I’ll only go to more extreme lengths (12’) on flat water for picky fish or for spring creeks where I might need a longer leader to avoid lining fish on an upstream cast. I’ll generally build those long ones from a 9’ tapered leader by adding two sections of tippet to step down. I’ve fished as long as 15’ but I’m quite positive it has never been necessary on our waters. Trout are not as smart as we tend to make them out to be. Use what you can cast accurately first and foremost. And work on presentation casts that land the fly, leader and fly line in a manner that presents the fly to the target naturally with minimal mending required. This involves the right amount of slack, naturally, but also means choosing the right angle of approach which you will learn in time. My best advice while you are learning to tackle presentation: stick to a rod length tapered leader with something like 4x and try to eliminate variables the best you can. If your casting is on point, it won’t matter much what tippet or leader configuration is on the business end, it will turn over. It absolutely never hurts to practice casting in your yard, in a pond or wherever is practical as much as possible. Whenever I go into the yard and cast I use an old stimulator or wooly bugger with a clipped hook for a more realistic feel.

When you practice, you want to see casts that turnover in the air and land evenly, or preferably fly first. This will help tremendously on the water. Practice hauling, practice reach casts. But mostly just try to land that fly where you want it exactly and with good turnover. The Harvey leaders are legit, but until you get the casting dialed in I don’t think you will see any benefits and it definitely will not help turnover IMO.

Have fun and try not to overcomplicate things the best you can.

 

[jaredoconnor]

There's a couple of things I should clarify, so I don't lead anyone astray...

1. I am almost always tight-lining, if I can get within ~25 feet of the fish. That applies to all techniques; nymphs, dries, streamers, etc. Thus, my dry fly leader is mainly used beyond 25 feet.

2. Harvey leaders intentionally do not cast well; the whole point is to land with a lot of slack.

I don't think either of those points should deter anyone, any any skill level, from using the leaders that I posted. However, the context matters.

 

[krusty]

I mainly use 7.5’ tapered leaders and add tippet to get me to a rod length total leader (plus
or minus) for walk and wade small freestones and for fishing from a boat on the move. I just like the way they lay down. I’ll only go to more extreme lengths (12’) on flat water for picky fish or for spring creeks where I might need a longer leader to avoid lining fish on an upstream cast. I’ll generally build those long ones from a 9’ tapered leader by adding two sections of tippet to step down. I’ve fished as long as 15’ but I’m quite positive it has never been necessary on our waters. Trout are not as smart as we tend to make them out to be. Use what you can cast accurately first and foremost. And work on presentation casts that land the fly, leader and fly line in a manner that presents the fly to the target naturally with minimal mending required. This involves the right amount of slack, naturally, but also means choosing the right angle of approach which you will learn in time. My best advice while you are learning to tackle presentation: stick to a rod length tapered leader with something like 4x and try to eliminate variables the best you can. If your casting is on point, it won’t matter much what tippet or leader configuration is on the business end, it will turn over. It absolutely never hurts to practice casting in your yard, in a pond or wherever is practical as much as possible. Whenever I go into the yard and cast I use an old stimulator or wooly bugger with a clipped hook for a more realistic feel.

When you practice, you want to see casts that turnover in the air and land evenly, or preferably fly first. This will help tremendously on the water. Practice hauling, practice reach casts. But mostly just try to land that fly where you want it exactly and with good turnover. The Harvey leaders are legit, but until you get the casting dialed in I don’t think you will see any benefits and it definitely will not help turnover IMO.

Have fun and try not to overcomplicate things the best you can.

Good advice. I would also recommend, when casting over rising fish (or any fish for that matter) to let even shitty casts lay and simply try to gently take up slack so you are less likely to miss a strike. While fish may not be spooked by a single bad cast they definitely will scatter when the area is thrashed with repeated attempts at the perfect cast. Trout really aren't as critical about a shitty cast as other flyfishers. They will often hit a dry fly in the middle of a leader tangle.

 

[Aleforme]

I mainly use 7.5’ tapered leaders and add tippet to get me to a rod length total leader (plus
or minus) for walk and wade small freestones and for fishing from a boat on the move. I just like the way they lay down. I’ll only go to more extreme lengths (12’) on flat water for picky fish or for spring creeks where I might need a longer leader to avoid lining fish on an upstream cast. I’ll generally build those long ones from a 9’ tapered leader by adding two sections of tippet to step down. I’ve fished as long as 15’ but I’m quite positive it has never been necessary on our waters. Trout are not as smart as we tend to make them out to be. Use what you can cast accurately first and foremost. And work on presentation casts that land the fly, leader and fly line in a manner that presents the fly to the target naturally with minimal mending required. This involves the right amount of slack, naturally, but also means choosing the right angle of approach which you will learn in time. My best advice while you are learning to tackle presentation: stick to a rod length tapered leader with something like 4x and try to eliminate variables the best you can. If your casting is on point, it won’t matter much what tippet or leader configuration is on the business end, it will turn over. It absolutely never hurts to practice casting in your yard, in a pond or wherever is practical as much as possible. Whenever I go into the yard and cast I use an old stimulator or wooly bugger with a clipped hook for a more realistic feel.

When you practice, you want to see casts that turnover in the air and land evenly, or preferably fly first. This will help tremendously on the water. Practice hauling, practice reach casts. But mostly just try to land that fly where you want it exactly and with good turnover. The Harvey leaders are legit, but until you get the casting dialed in I don’t think you will see any benefits and it definitely will not help turnover IMO.

Have fun and try not to overcomplicate things the best you can.

Thank you Sir. Some good advise. I'm definitely trying to keep it as simple as possible.

 

[Old Man]

I have this one small creek that I like to fish here as in Montana. I showed one fly fisher how skittish the fish are that are here. I held my arm out over the water and 5 fish darted for cover. They were in good cover to start with as where they darted out from. This is about the only place where you can see fish.

 

[Porter2]

Anywhere from 7-12’ …pending on type of water/fly/weather/rod/line and basically it comes down to what I’m comfortable with that session/day. It’s a mixed bag but comes down to what I feel confident with. I don’t want to feel like I’m fighting the cast and placement of the fly….